<Deleted User>
Are songs poems?
Sewn by The Feeling
Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds by The Beatles
No Woman No Cry Bob Marley
One in Ten by UB40
What a Wonderful World by Louis Armstrong
What do you think?
Other examples of songs which work well as poems include:
Guy Fawkes Table by Attila (ok, he's a poet anyway, but thats one of his songs)
Soldier by the Angelic Upstarts (well worth checking out)
Lost in the Supermarket by The Clash
Oh, and Saturday Job by The Dole Dossers (ok...maybe not!!)
<Deleted User>
OOPs forgot to mention All I want is You by U2
Should really mention some ladies maybe sweet dreams by The Eurythmics Though I like Marilyn Manson's version much better.
Sorry by Tracy Chapman
I will Always Love You by Dolly Parton
Glad someone agrees with me - though I'm not sure I want to talk to you cos you haven't helped me out with my poem. boo hoo :-( x
I think most people will agree with you (about the song thing anyway) and as I've said before the only reason why I perform as much as I do is because I can't sing so doing poetry instead seemed like an obvious transition to make!
<Deleted User>
I grew up in a bookless house and I couldn't read till I was twelve so I guess songs have always ben my poems.
I can't sing either - I would love too - I'd love to be a Diva like Dolly or Aretha.
Mind I've always wanted to ba song writer also I want to write a song that can compete with Meatloaf's Bat Out Of Hell, which I think is a classic - think that is more of a story than a poem though.
Two out Three aint bad would count as a poem maybe - bit like my poem A Negative Response but what would you know as you haven't read it!
I have seen you mention The Stranglers before what do you reckon their best song is?
I love No More Heroes and Strange Little Girl.
Shoot this has become musical appreciation, I'll be here all night - Anyway why are you in on a Friday night young man?
Should you not be out partying and spreading your seed far and wide?
Sorry far too personal - ignore me I'm nosy like that and cheeky too.
xx
My best songs by them vary, I quite like the early stuff such as No More Heroes, Down in the Sewer, Tank, School Mam ect. But I'm partial to later stuff such as Thrown Away, The Man They Loved to Hate, Who Wants the World, and even newer stuff like Relentless, Coup do Grace, Tonight, I Hate You, ect.
The list is endless! My main passion though is Stiff Little Fingers I can't name a bad song by them and I've all there stuff!
I'm staying in tonight as I'm going to a punk all dayer tomorrow so I shall be wowing the people of Leeds with my stunning good looks and youthfulness!
<Deleted User>
I don't know Stiff Little Fingers - sounds painful, I'll ask the kids about them when they get back - no doubt they'll enlighten me.
I'm ashamed to say it was my big sister who was the Stranglers fan, she was a punk back in the eighties into The Sex Pistols and The Exploited - I'm afraid I was a real girl I was into Bon Jovi - always had a thing about guys with long hair or geeks which probably explains - oh shit I nearly said Harry Potter - pray that's because I'm reading the book before the police come to take me away - I meant Jarvis Cocker your honour.
xxx
The first time I saw The Exploited I spent a night in a police cell covered in blood, the second time I saw them, I almost fell asleep while watching them, I wasn't a happy bunny!
Oo-er you nearly shot yourself in the foot with the Harry Potter comment there lol!
<Deleted User>
Wasted Life At The Edge, Suspect Device, Noboddies Heroes, Tin Soldier, Listen ect
Very rarely got into the charts, but then again neither did the Exploited!
<Deleted User>
Are you a very old 21 yr old or where the Exploited very old men when you watched them as they were in their thirties when I was young back when dinosaurs roamed free. (More commonly known as old folk)
<Deleted User>
<Deleted User>
<Deleted User>
xxx
<Deleted User> (7790)
<Deleted User> (7790)
<Deleted User> (7790)
and Bartok,Berg, Schoenberg and Einsturzende Neubauten have terrific riffs.
Sometimes you can set poems to music, though it's usually the ones with the simpler rhythms. But a song lyric is really meant to be part of the music, as integral as the chords or the bridge.
<Deleted User> (7790)
<Deleted User> (7790)
<Deleted User> (7790)
I always thought Tough Shit Mickey by Conflict would make a decent poem but maybe thats because its not riddled with choruses!
Ditto with Dylan. In fact, he's explicitly denied that he was a poet on more than one occassion. He calls himself a "song and dance man."
Ballads are similarly designed to be sung. They may work without music, but they're more powerful with.
I won't deny that some songs work without music; but they work even better with. Nor am I denying the power of song to move strong emotions or put across ideas. My favourite songwriter is Elvis Costello. A song without music is still rather bare, however, because at least half of its impact comes from the music.
I suspect we poets especially like to think of poetry as the highest art form, therefore the lyrics we like must be poetry too. But I don't see why they have to be: music is a poweful art form in itself, more than capable of stirring great emotion with or without lyrics. Smokey Robinson is as great a musician as Dylan, IMHO.
I heard a jazz setting of a Rupert Brooke poem, sung by Norma Winstone, recently.
<Deleted User>
If all you need to do to turn something into a poem is to read it aloud, you might as well read the phone book aloud and call it poetry.
Poems contain their own music, their own rhythms, their own harmonies and dissonances and rhymes. You can take them away and read them.
Songs have their own integrity. They don't need to be called poems to make them special.
A poem set to music is a poem set to music. Personally, I suspect Blake would be turning in his grave at the way they turned his poem into a piece of jingoistic last-night-of-the-Proms nonsense.
<Deleted User>
<Deleted User> (7790)
So is a song without its words still music?
Your argument, Steve, is one of retrospect. You have read the lyrics -- poems -- after hearing them as part of a song.
The brain would be missing the emotional context generated by the music.
It is a learned omission rather than an actual lack.
Now I'm off to write a libretto.
<Deleted User> (7790)
It sounds as though we have created a difference engine here.
Adios.
Lyrics written specifically for music very seldom stand up on their own - if they were poems, I'd be getting out the red pen and crossing out the words that fit the music but don't have any other purpose, the cliches that sound good in a song* but terrible anywhere else, the obvious or too-clever rhymes - most lyrics are bad poetry. That doesn't mean they're bad songs, however.
As for libretti, I'm told most of them are rubbish if you read them without the music. (I'm pretty sure, by the way, that the republican, pacifist, religiously heterodox Blake, would hate the way Jerusalem gets sung in Anglican churches and as a form of jingoism.
* Actually, if you set some performance poems to music they might make better songs!
<Deleted User>
I think you are missing the point. It isn't the context of Jerusalem that changes it's meaning but the interpretation. Jerusalem became an anthem for the Aristocracy because they could interpret it as a longing for an earlier, pre-industrial age which they could identify with for obvious reasons.
You are right, of course I cannot know what Mr Blake would think if he was alive today, perhaps he'd be as pleased as punch that the establishment are singing his words along with such great literary works as "Land of Hope and Glory", but somehow, given his anti-authoritarianism when he was alive, I think not.
<Deleted User>
I think it is wrong to say that most songs are bad poems - you can't say every poem written is good and is a piece of art, that is exactly the same with songs
Iris by The Goo Goo dolls for example is a more beautiful poem than some of the more learned poets have ever managed and stands up with or without music.
I would say that a songwriter who is just trying to fit the words to the music is severely lacking in both skill and vision and I would say the same of a poet who was just setting the words to fit with his rhyme scheme.
I agree that music is an art form in it's own right but I think your argument is one of the reasons lots of people sigh and shake their head when asked about poetry as they think it is something that is very difficult to do, has to be written down and in a particular way and is written by a particular group of people.
When actually poetry is all around them often set under different labels!
Well debated guys.
xxx
<Deleted User> (7790)
Context is part and parcel of interpretation, surely? A context is implicit in interpretation. A context is employed in interpretation, shirley?A context is an interpretation, simply? A context is a given of interpretation.To contextualize is to provide an intepretation. Now, say it again with feeling.
Cuddly toys? Hell's bells.
Good article in the New Scientist (9th June 2007) that explain why these 'outbursts' of opinion keep arising. The article's called THE SECRET POWER OF THINGS WE HOLD DEAR. I suppose a poem/song is an 'object.'
We are all different. Some of us are happy to see poetry -- as Maggie says -- everywhere. Some of us like rigid parameters. None of us are entirely right, and none of us are entirely wrong because all of us are right only if we remain within our own definitions.
We have spent enough time wriggling on the floor of sophistry.
Let us stand and enjoy what we enjoy, and have the good nature to let those who differ enjoy their difference.
<Deleted User>
much love and laughter to all our happy campers.
xxxxx
<Deleted User>
And you wonder why they call me a daftie
<Deleted User> (7790)
Sorry ... I was somewhere else for a moment.
Contexts are multifarious: they are the intentional positioning of a poem/object/lyric/cuddly toy (at the Albert Hall, Last Night of the Proms); they are the (emotional/intellectual) previous experiences of said object/poem/lyric/cuddly toy: they are the historical, emotional, psychological contexts of both writer and reader and musician (hooray Deconstructionism). All contexts are points of interpretation. You can then further the interpretation with your own contexts. These contexts then have their own set of interpretations. At some point the mind fixates on the one that closest represents your current emotional/intellectual landscape.
Nothing is offered in a neutral, base state. No poem/lyric is ever read/heard/recited/sung by someone in an emotionally (intellectually) blank state, a state that is then given an emotion (intellectual clause) by that poem/lyric. An existing state is altered by the context/pretext/interpretation of the poem/lyric/cuddly toy that impinges on it.
A context can be interpreted. An interpretation can be given a context. An interpretation can be a context and vice versa. A context is often a given a fait accomplice.
As Shakespeare said: nothing is but people make it so.
So?
<Deleted User>
"Text without context is pretext" as someone once wrote.
Or
txt w/out c/txt s pr/txt
as it says in teenspeak
<Deleted User>
My Chemical Romance
There are rights and there are no wrongs
Poems take on a rhythm of there own
Music to many been applied, others thrown
I'll leave this rhyme and reason on that note
Put on dark glasses and dark brown overcoat
Try my hand at poetry that could turn to Rap
Let up all hope that it turns out very nicly
<Deleted User>
<Deleted User> (7790)
Pretext? Isn't that when you're waiting for your sim card to reboot?
<Deleted User>
Thanks for intervening Cilla - I mean Moxy.
xxxx
<Deleted User> (7790)
For your vote by proxy
To write lines in need of note
Whilst sat in dark brown overcoat
Intelligence has it you are a ringer
Fot chat show host Jerry Springer
Sign me to write for Magie and Steve?
Me thinks its a plot you weave
<Deleted User> (7790)
<Deleted User>
xxxx
<Deleted User> (7790)
Anyway, it shouldn't be an Opera, it should be a Musical. Lyrics by Cole Porter, Jerome Kern, Ira Gershwin, Johnny Mercer...
Never mind dumb Yankee emo-bands, I want some proper songs...
<Deleted User>
<Deleted User> (7790)
<Deleted User> (7790)
<Deleted User> (7790)
<Deleted User> (7790)
<Deleted User> (7790)
All these fumes are definitely choking
I see Maggie calls you Cilla
For planning this romantic thriller
To do this commission justice
I'll drop a line to Tim Rice
Enrol myself in song writing classes
Trying to focus through dark glasses
Shall I bring the soap?
<Deleted User>
And what's wrong with emo's? Freedom to be different I say so Steven if you want to wash out my mouth leave the soap at home but honey, if you want to make up for your gaff - I'll be waiting for you in the bath.
xxx
<Deleted User> (7790)
<Deleted User> (7790)
The things that are liable
when poets go triable
They ain't necessarily soul.
Have faith, Mr Golding, you can do this without recourse to a song writing course or advice from a Rice.
Killa Klack
Any mad reference was over in a trice
Words pour forth from this my soul
For M & S, Mr K lets rock and roll
Cheers
Phil
Stephen Sondheim - now there's a man who can write a lyric, he even wrote a song entirely in hiaku for Pacific Overtures.
<Deleted User> (7790)
The emo kids I knew relied on self harm just to "proove a point" how very silly.
Sorry am I been negative and ill-informed here?
My eldest is one. Hard work, but the real person is inside that still has the needs of every teenager.
cheers
Phil
<Deleted User>
As a punk - I would expect less judgement from you!
The name Emo - comes from the word Emotion and basically these kids are saying they FEEL their EMOTIONS just as every one else does!
Kids are often generalised as typical YOUTH, there is no such thing, they find ways of standing out, of being individuals and at the same time finding a way to belong!
Yes some Emo's wear black and self harm, just the same as some Punks have pink spiky hair and spit in old ladies faces!
My point is there is good and bad in every group, every generation - let's face it guys people used to say and possibly still do that poets are poncey puffs.
My youngest daughter is an Emo, she very rarely wears black, never self harms or harms other people, she simply believes that she has a right to her views, her tastes and her emotions and I am very proud of her!
xxxx
<Deleted User>
Sorry, it was low class of me to sterotype and yes I should know better.
Representations not Reality
On the Emo point we have become both pupil and teacher. We have raised the barrier and leave richer.
Words are a power to change. Poetry is a most potent force.
it makes you cry, laugh, happy and sad. Social Commentary . My discussion point.
Words in our poetry become pictures in your minds.
(there is a good title/line mmm)
Cheers
Phil
<Deleted User> (7790)
<Deleted User>
xxx
<Deleted User>
<Deleted User>
Please may I use it when I do my outreach work.
(I would put your name to it of course)
Yes of course you can.
The poem itself itself is called 'Shackles' and there is a word missed out, 4th line down
It should read - 'We all have our identities that we seek'
Let me know how it goes down
Regards
Phil
<Deleted User>
the stuff you do is very similar to the stuff I do - I work in the community with socially excluded people please check out the writing website I help to run: www.ourvoices.org.uk
I would be very interested in your feed back?
And any other WOL(ers) who wish to check out the site and give me their comments, are more than welcome and I'd be grateul for the input as constant improvement is important to me.
Magi.xxx
Magi
<Deleted User>
or the poem further down?
Its ok either way.
cheers
Phil
<Deleted User>
Magi
xxx
If you were to the play on con and confusion my poem on the review page and yes please use it. Its the least I can do for the help received by this sites fellow poets,( that still sounds strange when I say that).
Bring on the Fusion
The thunder of the heart the rhythm of the heart
Where should help begin? What’s the communities’ part?
Money comes in; some wanted and some unplanned
Agencies working separately; Why not work hand in hand
Separate boats sailing or rowing; racing across our turf
Why not catch the next wave and together we’ll surf
Atop the white horses we ride; we’re working side by side
Reach out for communal goals; any differences put aside
Communities grow alone upon the working fields of Trafford
Some are sustainable jet others, unfortunately, we can ill afford
People pulling this way and that; this only serves the confusion
Let us all take out the ‘con’ leaving a community with fusion
© phil goldng
Philip Golding - Fri 17th Aug 07
regards
Phil
Just looked at your 'Our Voices' site. What a superb concept and right up my street.
Does the project have sister sites? Can the text on this site be shown in other languages?
Given me an idea for the site i am putting together, which will become my page, but if it could be a notice board for the communities of Trafford. The I am very much into putting things back into the system concept.
When it goes live it will be called www.poetryechos.co.uk .
We need to talk
Cheers
Phil
<Deleted User>
Yep be good to talk to you I like all the stuff you are doing with your writin in the community, I am doing similar projects in Bolton.
Maybe we could swap and share ideas - I'll see you at the Howcroft on Sunday and give you my details so we can talk further in the fullness of time.
Magi
xxx
Pete Crompton
I like to compose poems whilst listening to music.
Music releases our spiritual energy.
I am influenced more by song lyrics as much as reading poetry, probably due to the fact I can listen and drive and absorb in my waking day.
I am quite dynamic and often struggle to sit down and read, I need things moving and although the words jump off the page of a an exciting story or poem I like the ambiquous nature of some songs
<Deleted User>
<Deleted User>
Is Autumn Leaves a poem or a song?
What ever it is, it's inspired and a delight to watch and what ever it is honey, I think you do for poetry what Elvis did for music, i.e. you make it your own!
Well done.
xxx
It prooves the point poems and songs are interlinked.
I have written a few poems when i have had a tune in my head. The resulting poem can be sung to that tune. I based one on the theme tune 'Raw Hide' .
I fine 'rap' lyrics
Cheers
Phil
Phil
Healing Time
verse
I want to be there for you baby, try to understand
Share your hurt together, our common land
Seeing the pain in your eyes, its breaking my soul
I want be there for you and make you whole
Chorus
You are my diamond light where ever I walk
I am there for you any time you want talk
I respect your space and your healing time
I’ll always be there for you, end of the line
verse
All the tears I’m crying for you are tearing me inside
Want to show you my love for you, just being by your side
Sometimes things I say or do might scare you away
Just want you to know, I’m here for ever and a day
Chorus
You are my diamond light where ever I walk
I am there for you any time you want talk
I respect your space and your healing time
I’ll always be there for you, end of the line
verse
Which paths we will travel down are never planned?
Please let us be together, you and me holding hands
What ever you want to say I will listen to you
Trust our love is strong and will see us through
Chorus
You are my diamond light where ever I walk
I am there for you any time you want talk
I respect your space and your healing time
I’ll always be there for you, end of the line
I respect your space and your healing time
I’ll always be there for you, end of the line
© Phil Golding 22/09/07