He's my Elvis in terms off writing!

He was a sexist pig, but I love his use off dialogue in poetry!

Isn't he the one who said something along the lines of
it's only when your poems get into the hundreds or was it thousands, you realize how little you've written.
Excuse the mis-quotation here but it is similar.
I love his poetry too.
Sexist maybe but what the heck, most of it's correct if not politically.
Janet.x

I don't think he was sexist in a specific way, he just reflected the values of his time.

Yeah - he's my Elvis too, the fat, bloated late period that died on the toilet Elvis.

Andy - I am deeply offended. How anyone can put that letchbag in the same sentence as Elv I do not know.

I've read a fair few of his novels, and although I know that if I had ever met him I would undoubtedly have punched his stupid sexist misogynistic drunken face in, I did kinda like (and identify with) his misanthropy :)

But Elvis? No. You're off my christmas card list for that one.

The film, Bukowski, is being shown on Monday at the beatification gig in Manchester - see news item on the home page, or gig guide for Monday.

sadly - i've not read Bukowski for ages now - probably almost 2 years now which is probably the way things go sometimes i guess with your reading taste.. lol

Sorry Andy mate...each to their own and all that.

But for me Bukowski is enormously overrated. I have His book The Pleasures of The Damned and I see it as a tombstone in how not to write poems.

I have alway been perplexed as to why the media and the poetry world ever gave him the time of day.

I look at all manner of modern poets from Larkin to Betjeman, from Stevie Smith to Andrew Motion and I see lots and lots of wonderful poetry and talent.

I look to Bukowski and I see prose, often very average prose with very little technical skill.

By way of comparison when I look to Andrew Motion I often see great prose poetry.

The fact that he was also a disgusting man makes it easier to dislike his work.

Maybe I am missing something though...I could well be.

Hi Chris;

It’s not a problem. As I said in my previous note, I’ve not read his stuff for a few years now (poetry wise).

The reason why I particularly liked his stuff at the time certainly 4 or 5 years was the fragmented nature of his first two novels ‘Post Office’ and ‘Factorum’ which reflected the wandering nature of my own life then and influenced my own novel.

I don’t have the book you quoted but I think it was one of the many books published
after his death, and from what I understand it’s little more than a cash in volume as
he sent something like 1,000’s of poems to his publisher which were never published
in his lifetime because they didn’t like them but which started mysteriously started appearing
after his death over loads of volumes which defo smells of the word ‘cash in’.

He certainly published too much poetry (Well over 40 books) and within it, I defo recall there been lots of rubbish within it, but I guess back then I could relate to a lot of his life and did enjoy chunks of it.

Nowadays, like I said, I’ve not really read his poetry for well over 2 years now. It was a stepping stone for me as it reflected my life then and through it proved a stepping stone how to be honest in my own writing in a direct way. Nowadays I read other stuff, tend to be more of a fan of the American novelist, Paul Auster and the late German Poet Paul Celan and am currently reading ‘Shade’ by the Irish Film Director Neil Jordan…. Tastes change as they always do with writing and reading and if I am honest – perhaps I should remove this comment but it proved a inspiration to me upon once a time, so I won’t….

<quote>By way of comparison when I look to Andrew Motion I often see great prose poetry.</quote>

That's funny. All I see is the dull prose. At least he's less miserable than Larkin.

Andy Quote
The reason why I particularly liked his stuff at the time certainly 4 or 5 years was the fragmented nature of his first two novels ‘Post Office’ and ‘Factorum’ which reflected the wandering nature of my own life then and influenced my own novel.
Unquote

I haven't read those novels and do not write prose, so I can't really comment much. All I can say is if those novels were influential or helpful, then that is great and maybe they are better than the poetry collection (huge) I have partially read.

Andy Quote
I don’t have the book you quoted but I think it was one of the many books published
after his death, and from what I understand it’s little more than a cash in volume as
he sent something like 1,000’s of poems to his publisher which were never published
in his lifetime because they didn’t like them but which started mysteriously started appearing
after his death over loads of volumes which defo smells of the word ‘cash in’.
Unquote

Maybe I am getting more of the questionable work, who knows?

Either way what I term good and questionable is different from what other people will term good and questionable. So maybe it is just differing things floating our respective boats?

Andy Quote
perhaps I should remove this comment but it proved a inspiration to me upon once a time, so I won’t….
Unquote

No you definitely shouldn't remove what you have said- you have felt it and it is true of your feeling and your opinion. I would be annoyed with myself if you felt the need to remove your comments on the basis of what I or others may feel. Thinking differently is more than fine- it's importantly positive.

The friends of Voltaire say of Voltaire feeling;

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

In essence; we can disagree or have differing opinions, but your right to say or write your opinion is of the utmost importance and is as valid to me as my opinion or anyone else's.

I would also say the above is applicable in relation to Steven's opinion regarding Andrew Motion.

Andy commented to qualify his words, so I will as well. I think Motion was often poor and prosy during his laureate years.

That said imo his poems... A Dying Race, In The Attic, Leaving Belfast, Anne Frank Huis
and particularly the series; The First, The Second, The Third and The Fourth as can be found in his selected poems are profoundly poetic imo.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Andrew-Motion-Selected-Poems-1976-1997/dp/0571195040/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1305674600&sr=8-2

Then again that also is just an opinion...this is what it all is- opinions.

bukowski is one of, if not the greatest writer that ever lived, people often mix him and his alter ego, chinaski up and u have to realize his entire writing career was a mass parody of all the politically incorrect things ur not meant to say. If u take his character literally then ur not understanding the genius of his creation. And as for his poetry, if u dont think its good then u shud at least appreciate its originallity. Every modern writer craves to be the same as everyone they read. Bukowski was one writer that truly hated other writers and people in general thats why im so fond of his style. for anyone who dislikes him, i strongly recommend u read, ham on rye, its basically an autobiography and it explains a lot.

Bukowski was shit. He couldn't write for toffee. He's the Helen Steiner Rice of male egotism.

Thanks so much for putting us straight there Kealan. Gosh. How patronising. Here, have some back. EVERY modern writer you say? Really? Got a scrap of evidence for that huge generalisation?

Thanks for the pointers but I've already read Ham on Rye - and still maintain that Bukowski is a loathsome human being.

So you are a fan. That much is obvious. Please don't insult people by forcing your fanboy opinion of his 'genius' onto others.

Headlines you don't often see:
"Trouble flared at a poetry review...."