Hi guys and gals,
l'd ne intrigued to find out how people interpret this one. All comments even angry ones ae welcome.
It is only one line, l am trying to write imagist style poems.






So darling, this your first rape?

Heyup Scotty Boy, I heard you do this at The Howcroft the other week to the general disbelief of the assembled hordes. Didn't you have a title like "Saturday Night out in Manchester"? I know it gives the game away but it helps humble souls like me not to choke on our beer. Keep situationing. As my gran used to say, "there's always room for a situationist at my table, no matter how tall".

Dave

Hey Dave,
no, it's had no changes at all. But here it gives you a chnace to re-read it, let your dis-belief slide and think hang on this is Devon, maybe something else is going on here.

So darling, this your first rape?

I'm not too familiar with any works of Imagism but I gather that part of the concept was its 'directness'. When I first read this line the obvious and most powerful word was 'rape'. Without your intonation as the author, I found myself reading an ambiguity into the line. You appear to be asking a question,hence the punctuation, but could it also be a statement or a rhetorical question?
'Rape' is always a word that sits uncomfortable with some people when we associate ONE of its definitions with the violent sexual offence. However, I tried to disassociate this and marry the image with one of its other definitions.

"So, darling, this is your first plant from a cabbage family with bright yellow flowers?

Words eh?

As usual Scott, YOUR words get me thinking.

Have you any plans for adding more lines or is that the style?
I like it. There is much that can be discussed with those few words. Which is always a good indication.

Hi Darren,
thanks for your comments. Their no plan for any further lines, it is complete as it is. The point if imagist poetry is to imply a lit with very few words. In my opinion it is the hardest form. The most famous example is by William Carlos Williams, So Much Depends Upon, where he took Japanesse stlye writing and westernised it. Each person will interpret my one line differently. That's why l love it.

Hello Scott,

I'm very uncertain about this poem -- partly because you're using the classic (and deservedly maligned) comedy technique of the last word reveal. It feels like a very dissatisfying method of planting the subject -- putting the emphasis on shocking your audience by giving the focus on the final word (or, in comedy terms 'pulling back' at the last moment) rather than having them think further, and deeper. Rape is such a knee-jerk subject, which is why you've chosen it, but I don't feel that I gain any further level of understanding -- any poetry -- from this line. The rapist is locked in powerplay: the victim is being humiliated. That's what rape is. I feel that this line would be better served by either more lines, or the subject being integrated earlier into the sentence. As it stands it seems almost insensitive, in every sense of the word.

Hello again Scott.

Maybe I need to try and grasp the concept of this type of work. I NOW enjoy some Haiku poems. But only the ones that do not have words for the sake of fulfilling syllabicity constraints. In much the same way that your one line is intentionally implicit with its minimalistic approach, why so many words?
For minimal implicitness some words could, perhaps, be edited further still.
'Jesus'. 'Rape'. These two words imply many things when sitting uncomfortably next to each other and semantic puritans would choke on their beer. But there are words out there that can dilute the shock and even, marry the two together is some circumstances.
I hope that makes sense.

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Yes, as Sophie says, it's the snapshot aspect that's also entirely missing -- your line uses a rather abstracted noun 'darling' and a verb 'rape': except for the clash of 'darling' which is colloquial here anyway with the verb, there is nothing vaguely imagist -- no imagery -- which is a rather vital aspect of imagist poetry! I think Dave reffered to Saturday Night as a situationist piece -- which fits it better. But even so, there is no challange to expectations, the casually committed rape itself is displayed and nothing else. This stumbles into prurience and lacks the redemption of poetry. Porn rape. Rape porn.

I don't really see this as poetry as such, in any form.

But it did conjour up the image of a man and woman (partners in crime) just about to set out to actually rape someone together. Him showing her the ropes...

That's interesting, John, but I can't see the 'partners in crime' because of the colloquial 'darling' -- so very patronising -- therefore unequal status. Nor is it an affectionate 'darling' since the protagonist/purpotrator doesn't know this vital fact about the person spoken to.The sentence doesn't have the integrity of a partnership between speaker and listener. I guess you could say this is a 70s scene of crime officer talking to a fellow female officer in totally unaccapetable, 'pally,' patronising, cynical terms. But no poem.

And Darren, yes, I agree with what you're saying about the juxtoposition of words with all excess excised. But it's still got to have the special connectivity of poetry to work.

Hi guys,
to be honest the comments l am hearing are exactly what l expected to hear. It is only natural that it will not sit with a feminine audience because of the word rape being used. Also, l expected that an older demographic would not be as struck by this line cause they arent as affected by the Saturday night, drinking, drugs culture as say someone like myself, who is in their twenties. I am glad to of got the responses l expected, it does show that my work on stage has not been wasted.

Darling IS the victim of these words. Who or whatever 'darling' is. It 'feels' like the words are spoken by a sadistic person who enjoys tormenting their victim or a potential victim. But this is only how I interpret the words. I can read it, read it again and STILL conjure up associated images in my mind that I have been privy to. My imagination is occasionally dipped into the ink well of reality and although not 'poetic' in a traditional sense there is something in the syntax that stimulates our senses.

HEY, STEADY ON SAILOR BOY!

"Older Demographic..." Well, as Moxy and Sophie are female that leaves me as the 'older...'.
Don't think for one minute that member's of the Over 40 club are starfish who sit at home blowing bubbles. I am fully aware of what makes people in their 20's 'tick' and for many reasons. You arrogant sounding twot!

Oh dear Scott, as someone who has been the victim of both a sexual assault and an attempted rape in my late teens and early 20s I do feel I have a greater perspective than someone simply putting the words together for whatever reason. The correct demographic? Perhaps you are the wrong 'demographic' to write this. I've heard you use this argument before and it doesn't wash this time either. I think you may have a problem accepting that sometimes your perspective isn't shared by a lot of people, but it is cynically and sarcastically dismissive to keep chalking up 'wrong demographic.'

'Twot' is a great word, Darren. TWOT. Yes. I agree!

Hey guys,

just read moxy's comments, l have to say that as a man who has had a violent past,(not at home) but from school to about three years ago, violence including, being sexually assaulted with a pool que, knocking a drugged up teenager out with a brick, being mugged at needle point and beating a tramp unconscious with a metal bin lid, l do feel qualified to speak about inner city life. If l had a narrow perspective l wouldn;t use this forum for wide feedback. But any salesman would say that it is likely that higher percenatges of groups would key to certain topics than other groups. Surely?

Ditto.
I have looked into the eyes of rapists during formal Police Interviews. I have looked into the eyes of the victims of such crimes. I could write about that. Some of your perception is based on what you think. Try dealing with death, suicide, abuse and any other of the reality themes but, IN REALITY.
Perhaps then your time spent on the world's stage would be more appreciated and worthwhile.

And yes - I am annoyed at your apparent flippant and mildly offensive remark. Oh and by the way. I have in a sealed envelope - your reply to my replies.

Scott, not with rape as your subject. I think you'll find there's a concensus. The salesman analogy doesn't seem appropriate. Poetry isn't about 'buying' into things. And I certainly don't have a problem with poems about rape per se, but I do want a poem to affect me in the way a poem should. The one line isn't enough of anything to work in a positive or enlightening way. What was your motivation for writing it? Just to apparently reconfirm your belief that anyone not like you wouldn't like it or 'get' it. I think I can say I 'get' your poem but feel that it does poetry a disservice. It cheapens an emotionally charged topic, and it's less than a poem should be.
Hell's bells, I've been attacked in other ways, too, but I cannot accept that you've done justice to something that deserves more thought, more sensitivity, more compassion, more bravery, more humanity, more potency, more power and more eloquence.

Sorry Scott, but while being a victim allows you some insight into what makes the world go around. It doesn't show you everything that's out there or indeed offer a shield to hide behind. The idea of these forums are to accept what your peers say and pick the bones out of their advice. Some you will agree with, but some, if it's constructive, you will not. Don't then belittle their experiences or offer your troubled past as an excuse or a reason why you understand everything in life from just your perspective.
I'm calming down now...

I agree. My motivation, l had to know if crowds in this day and age could be shocked by such a short piece or by using a word like rape, when the media portrays such tragedies every day. My long term hope is to write against drinking drugs culture to stir thought on it, that is my usual approach, but l wanted to know if their was still enough anger to make the writing worth while, I think we've proved that their is more than enough. Sorry, l had to act like a twat during this discussion, l needed to know.

I said 'twot' not 'twat' your presumptions are perhaps too introverted. Hiding behind what you said in your last post doesn't fool me Mr Devon.
Rape - is a powerful word. Dynamite in fact. In the wrong hands it will always evoke a response. So too will patronising an audience.

Ask yourself this, when have you ever seen me hide from anything?

Ask yourself this - who are you?
Who am i?

And in answer to your question - are you not Scott Devon, THE world 'hide and seek champion' 1995?

Scott? Are you there? An ideal way to deal with any confrontation is communication. As the protagonist do you not feel that our thread needs some sort of closure? Or do I open this envelope that says, 'Scott will choose to remain silent (or hide)'. Hmmmh.

I got the impression, when I talked to Scott yesterday, that this one liner is actually part of three hander, so perhaps in context it has a very different meaning. Having not seen or heard the complete piece I can't comment further.

Hey peeps,

sorry l didn't reply to you Darren l have been to work (l work nights) so was offline. I don't feel as if you're ganging up on me at all, l welcome all comments negative included. If l am going to tackle a subject like this, l will stumble before l get it right. In truth l had the same problems with drug culture when l tackled that and got many a pint glass thrown at me in Newcastle, but the result was the Dancing Boy style. I will persevere with this new line and hope to produce something that will evoke as much thought and inspire as many as DB did. We can leave this here if you want, but l am open to any more comments that are available. I'd rather hear them to be honest.

"Ahhhhhh - closure".