Donations are essential to keep Write Out Loud going    

Lemn Sissay condemns police stop and search behaviour

entry picture

Poet and playwright Lemn Sissay has issued a passionate denunciation of the way police use their stop and search powers. Sissay, who was official poet of the 2012 London Olympics and was awarded an MBE in 2010, said in his blog on Tuesday that he had been stopped by the police over 50 times between the ages of 20 and 40, an average of once every 134 days. “It is traumatic.” He goes on to describe a recent encounter and adds: “Now I’m in dangerous territory, stopped by an officer of the law whose raison d’etre is to find a law being broken.” Sissay said he had been angered by hearing something on the radio. “What was that on Radio 4 I heard today: “If you’ve nothing to hide you’ve nothing to fear.’ Really? White police officers don’t experience this state threat. Nothing to fear?  The reason he stopped me is hidden inside his childhood.”

Sissay is a regular contributor to Radio 4’s Saturday Live. The home secretary, Theresa May, told MPs today that police stop and search powers are to be reviewed, following a more “intelligence-led” approach in a pilot scheme in five police forces. May acknowledged in the Commons that there was "widespread public concern" about stop and search, and she questioned whether it was "always used appropriately".   

Sissay says in his blog: “For most people in England, and by ‘most people’ I probably mean white people, driving your first car is an exciting  rites of passage into adulthood.  A black man in England soon learns that his rites of passage comes with overtly racist conditioning  (there is nothing covert about being stopped regularly by the police).”

 

  

◄ Janet Rogerson to judge Bank Street Writers competition

Poetry swap: Write Out Loud and The London Magazine ►

Please consider supporting us

Donations from our supporters are essential to keep Write Out Loud going

Comments

Profile image

Harry O'Neill

Fri 12th Jul 2013 15:41


As an effort to bing some peace to this.

As someone who owes more than they can say to a black person and was also once mugged and robbed by three of them (Its on police record) I can claim to be unbiased.

If you`re fated to be robbed in Catherine street Liverpool (like me) or in any other `black` area (as is much of London) then it`s very likely that your assailants will be black. If fated to be operated on, nursed, or looked after in a care-home, then those who minister to you are also quite likely to be black.

Black people are here to stay, and any Black criminals –as any other colour criminal –must be dealt with. (I doubt – given its relative un-success – that stop and search is any help at all in the process).

Profile image

M.C. Newberry

Wed 10th Jul 2013 12:31

I don't mind having a discussion - even with those who blatantly fail to recognise their own prejudiced partiality; and, to borrow from "CSI" - ignore the evidence (they don't like?) - and use "anecdotal" pejoratively whilst unable to understand that is exactly their own failing and adopting a tone of "how dare you" pious outrage when challenged.
Macpherson's report was often subject to strong criticism in the columns of leading broadsheet newspapers - but where are those views quoted?
This is a "numbers" game - in which political social engineering has played a massive part. And since the Establishment has always preferred to find useful "Aunt Sallys" to deflect unwanted attention from the results of its various policies, the actions of the police, however and wherever based in the reality of the street, are a perfect means of deflection. As public protectors under ultimate political control, they can be praised or pilloried according to convenience. Consider the murder of WPC Fletcher by Libyans in St James' Square - and the political solution: to fly her killer out of the country. There are numerous other examples of this type of behaviour by the Establishment, and what better reason when desperate for "the popular vote" from a vastly under-stated ethnic section of society in our towns and cities in recent memory. As for the daily reality of policing the streets in vast swathes of our towns and cities - a simple analogy for simple minds:
If a music shop is stocked full of pianos to the virtual exclusion of all else, then the piano will undoubtedly be the source of attention from all those visiting that shop or safeguarding/checking shop content. Geddit?

Profile image

John F Keane

Tue 9th Jul 2013 15:26

The terrors of Tring:

http://www.fotch.co.uk/

Profile image

Chris Co

Tue 9th Jul 2013 09:16

None of what you have just said in any way justifies the position taken by you or MC. You are correct that the issues you mention are also factors in Stop & Search, but that does not make your conclusion correct.

The idea of...oh well then, lots of 'types' might be agrieved, does not in any way shape or form justify the treatment of black people on the grounds of Stop & Search - it just doesn't!

Like it or not you are trying to justify the unjust, defend the indefensible. What you are doing comes across as a racist smokescreen.

Black people do not commit 5 times the amount of crime that white people do - therefore they should not face 5 times the amount of stop & search.

Also why is it that black people are 28/30 times more likely to be stopped - under section 60 stops? Again do black people account for 28/30 times more crime than white people?

No they don't!!!

How on earth are we having this conversation - excuse the french, but it's fucking ridiculous!

Profile image

John F Keane

Tue 9th Jul 2013 06:23

I'm not sure it is helpful to think of ethnicity in isolation, in regard to these issues. Ethnicity intersects with other factors such as youth, maleness and socio-economic deprivation. I would imagine that the police stop and search far more males than females, for instance. Far more poor people than rich people. Far more young people than old people. As individuals, perhaps whole swathes of the population have the right to feel aggrieved.

Profile image

Chris Co

Tue 9th Jul 2013 00:14

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/jun/12/police-stop-and-search-black-people

Now please let me know how much crime is supposed to be committed by black people? Do black people commit 28 times more crime than white people?

Ludicrous!

Even if you go off the most tame of estimates...Screw it, let's take 5 times more likely to face stop and search.

Now can anyone explain how black people commit 5 times more crime than white people?

If they don't and - they clearly don't!!!!!

then your position is in the toilet.


Seriously have you any idea how truly idiotic it is to try and defend this situation. To defend this is either stupidity of the highest order, denial, racism; or a combination of all three.


What decade are we in - this conversation is a sick joke.

Profile image

Greg Freeman

Mon 8th Jul 2013 23:28

Fine. As long as you agree that he has something to complain about ... that's all I wanted to know. Blizzards of statistics, that can be used to prove what you like, I have less interest in. And who are these upper middle-class female pensioners in Tring, in which you seem to have developed an Betjemanesque interest? Let's have a poem about them. And here's a challenge. Keep the politics out of it.

Profile image

John F Keane

Mon 8th Jul 2013 23:10

As a law-abiding person, of course he has something to complain about. However, the London police must target appropriate demographics in order to be effective crime-stoppers. Stopping and searching upper-middle class female pensioners in Tring would not be an effective use of their time. The stats suggest that young black men are also much more likely to be VICTIMS of gun/knife crime, so turning a blind eye to it would not really be serving the black community. Unless we want to suggest that the lives of young black men are somehow less 'valuable' than other lives, that is - a dangerous position to defend, as I'm sure you know.

Profile image

Greg Freeman

Mon 8th Jul 2013 22:55

So let's get this clear. What you're saying, John and MC, in a nutshell, is that Lemn Sissay has nothing to complain about?

Profile image

John F Keane

Mon 8th Jul 2013 22:00

I went to Wikipedia to check the claims of both sides in this fascinating debate:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_Kingdom#England_and_Wales_crime_statistics

These are the official MPS crime figures for London in 2010, broken down by ethnic group:

In June 2010 The Sunday Telegraph, through a Freedom of Information Act request, obtained statistics on accusations of crime broken down by race from the Metropolitan Police Service.[n 2] The figures showed that the majority of males who were accused of violent (including those subsequently acquitted) in 2009–10 were black. Of the recorded 18,091 such accusations against males, 54 percent accused of street crimes were black; for robbery, 59 percent; and for gun crimes, 67 percent.[25]

Street crimes include muggings, assault with intent to rob, and snatching property. Black males accounted for 29 percent of the male victims of gun crime and 24 percent of the male victims of knife crime.[25] Similar statistics were recorded for females. On knife crime, 45 percent of suspected female perpetrators were black; for gun crime, 58 percent; and for robberies, 52 percent.[26]

Operation Trident was set up in March 1998 by the Metropolitan Police to investigate gun crime in London's black community after black-on-black shootings in Lambeth and Brent.[27]

Between April 2005 and January 2006, figures from the Metropolitan Police Service showed that black people accounted for 46 percent of car-crime arrests generated by automatic number plate recognition cameras.[28]

In London in 2006, 75% of the victims of gun crime and 79% of the suspects were "from the African/Caribbean community."[29]

Profile image

Chris Co

Mon 8th Jul 2013 21:53

I have already detailed the fact that stop & search statistic FAR outweigh the reality of crime statistics for this group - that is an end to it!!!

Black people do not commit between 5/ 30 times the amount of crime of white people.

And like I said your examples are anecdotal and meaningless. For every racist coming up with the tripe your coming up with, we could find hundreds of people with very differing experience. The facts/statistics are what is important not bogus/weird claims.

The MET was found to be institutionally racist by the inquirey. You can say whatever you want - I am once again simply stating the FACT of the matter and the reality!

Take your racist tripe somewhere else - you've clear got a disgusting attitude towards other people - simply on the basis of the colour of their skin. I have no respect for anything you have to say from this point on, you've lost my respect entirely.

Profile image

M.C. Newberry

Mon 8th Jul 2013 15:35

Chris Co - when accusing someone of talking absolute nonsense, pause and be sure you have face to face reality, individual and collective, in your personal locker. The sheer number of crime suspects in reported crimes whose racial identity is IC3 (BLACK) might be a good place to start when considering police action in certain areas. I spent thirty years dealing with this on both "sides of the fence" and actually know something about attitudes, causes and their motives. I have faced - physically and mentally - that about which I speak and instead of so-called anecdotal examples (no names, no packdrill, pal!) I have the experience of daily reality to fall back on. I note that none of my assertions were individually challenged as to worth/truth...not surprising since they have a factual basis rather than the pious patronising lectures we often hear from those about whom my mother would say "butter wouldn't melt in their mouths".
MacPherson - a lawyer with all the street-wise experiences of the average member of his social origins, expressed views that matched them. I have heard the same sort of thing from others with similar detached views of what society is about. A pinch of salt and a bit of plain speaking that embraced much more was an opportunity he woefully missed in his Establishment haste to tar ALL the members of a great public service. I'm sure a mind that sees the Police Service as "institutionally racist" would undoubtedly be hesitant in accusing the legal profession of being "institutionally venal and corrupt". In short, collective generalisations should be avoided by those
who should know better despite the pressures on them
to dance to a desired tune.

Profile image

Chris Co

Mon 8th Jul 2013 03:38

Below is basic public domain information.

In the United Kingdom, the inquiry about the murder of the black Briton Stephen Lawrence concluded that the investigating police force was institutionally racist. Sir William Macpherson used the term as a description of "the collective failure of an organisation to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their colour, culture or ethnic origin", which "can be seen or detected in processes, attitudes, and behaviour, which amount to discrimination through unwitting prejudice, ignorance, thoughtlessness, and racist stereotyping, which disadvantages minority ethnic people".[19] Sir William’s definition is almost identical to Stokely Carmichael’s original definition some forty years earlier.

So M.C - really what you're saying flies in the face of the reality as found in one of the biggest race cases in the history of the United Kingdom.

Oh and the statistics on stop and search are at complete odds with the percentage of crime/those found guilty of crimes from the black community - so really M.C your talking absolute nonsense. The facts do not remotely bare out your opinions.

As for your anecdotal incidents...that's all they are, anecdotal. For that reason your case of one is somewhat irrelevant.

Profile image

John F Keane

Fri 5th Jul 2013 21:20

Aren't other variables involved, such as age, class and gender? How many middle class, female pensioners are searched?

Profile image

Greg Freeman

Thu 4th Jul 2013 15:03

I have a perfectly law-abiding black friend and former colleague whose experience of the police as a driver is exactly that of Lemn Sissay's. He doesn't make a big thing about it; he just shrugs his shoulders about it most of the time. That doesn't make it right. It makes it institutionally racist.

Profile image

M.C. Newberry

Thu 4th Jul 2013 14:47

Oh come on. If a white officer does it, it's"racism". If a black officer does it, he's an "Uncle Tom". The same moans were heard three or more decades ago...so what does this say about a community that seems apart from countless other ethnic origins in its anti-behaviour towards virtually all forms of authority?
IF an area is crime ridden and its population predominantly a particular ethnic origin, it's obvious that the police will be stopping and checking mostly that sort of individual. It is called "reality". In south London, I once challenged two black youths who were kicking the hell out of a road sign - to which was chained a rather expensive/new looking mountain bike. But looking around, all I could see were other blacks who were busy doing nothing. I was suddenly the odd one out. Match that attitude to irresponsible multi-parenthood out of wedlock and you have a community intent on having its cake and eating it too...preferably immune from any criticism and unwanted attention from "Old Bill". Operation Trident was set up to deal specifically with "black" crime. What does that say to the REST of London's many ethnic communities scrubbing along as best they can - and successfully too within society and the law?
"Take as you find" isn't a bad maxim for getting along - and it works both ways.

Profile image

Chris Co

Tue 2nd Jul 2013 18:26

I recently wrote a poem, in part on this subject.

It takes little more than basic research in order to find that black people are 30 times more likely to face stop and search in the UK than white people. Not 3 times more, 30 times more!!!

This is a national disgrace make no mistake.

If you wish to post a comment you must login.

This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse, you are agreeing to our use of cookies.

Find out more Hide this message