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EASTER: A NEW START

God knows that all men are born equal,

so that must be so, mustn't it?

God obviously could never be wrong. 

 

In singing that particular song

from the same old hymn sheet

we are fine examples of that simple half truth

 

for why have equal opportunities

to give some a leg up,

bind us to a common goal to be more equal,

if we already are so. 

 

God knows what HE meant. 

Something to think of over Lent

and to ponder how people who are more equal

flock together.

 

Or could it be after birth that the inequality starts,

when those not (apparently) quite so equal

try to appear more equal too.

 

(Off mike:   "Was that OK?)

 

🌷(6)

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Comments

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raypool

Tue 3rd Apr 2018 15:52

Just to hopefully close this large tome David. I can see what you are getting at and why. The greater mystery for me is having a brother who has devoted so much of his life to the Church without once him and me having a conversation about his beliefs. That says it all for me.
Thanks for sticking with this mate.

Ray

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raypool

Tue 3rd Apr 2018 12:03

Blimey I have taken on an "almighty " task here. I think the ponderings only prove how much we are bemused or convinced either way when it comes to religion. I feel as if I have peed in the font to some extent.
Graham thanks for your rare visit, appreciated of course. I think it's a matter of "lift going up or down" on the night. Entirely a matter of conjecture. Obviously a sideswipe at the whole concept of sin. If we take the commandments, even Prince Charles has Camilla to answer for. I'm sure the Church has forgiven him.

Keith, back again. The plot thickens. I will say that the reconstruction using DNA of the recent ancient man of Cheddar caves shows a dark skin. Also Jesus presumably was similarly imbued. Maybe in another two thousand years time we will have an answer for all this. Until then in the words of Brucie: "keeeep searching."
I know i'm being flippant, and I do respect your beliefs.
Thanks for elevating my work ! I don't think Jefferson was reckoning on elevating the native American Indians to any kind of equality. Christianity turned a blind eye to their freedoms and rights.

Thanks for the extra thoughts David. I am intrigued by the way society keeps the outsider or anti social away in prisons as a last resort, when the grand plan has not worked; a quite primitive but to a point effective to protect us. (It's really no use trying to tie God down to specifics - only serves to perpetuate the mystery).

Cynthia, you make an excellent point. Patriarchal religions tend to be exclusive, in fact any club does the same; apart from the WI perhaps. That's another hornet's nest for WOL to reveal . The male instinct largely is based on conquering and dominating, which is largely the history we have inherited. Thanks for your comment.

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Cynthia Buell Thomas

Tue 3rd Apr 2018 10:51

Since these comments deal primarily with the concept of 'God' as 'He', may I point out that many faiths, including denominations within Christianity, are a bit more circumspect, and refer to Father/Mother God. An excellent adaptation in my opinion, and I do not call them sects.

God knows (smile) not all, but some. And I'm not referring to the Roman Catholic ideology of the deification of Mary as Mother of God. But Male/Female, unseparable in 'God-ship'.

Ah, Ray, what a fine discussion for this particular week. Reminds me of some splendid sessions of Bible Study so long ago. The fur absolutely flew! And then we all had tea and cake, enquiring about families and health and current aspirations, homogenized in our commonality.

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Graham Sherwood

Mon 2nd Apr 2018 22:33

Working on the premise that everyone can be saved if they repent their sins. I'm glad I won't be joining them in the great white hereafter. There are some really fucked up people up there!

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keith jeffries

Mon 2nd Apr 2018 22:25

Ray,
Thank you for your response to my comment. The issue of equality and inequality can, to some extent, be drawn from our personal experience of life and the fact that as human beings we have the freedom to act whether it be for the good or the bad. Devastation and those deprived of equality in a world of intense joy and suffering, often without any sane reason is highly problematic, if not shrouded in mystery. I am often reminded of the words of Jesus when addressing his disciples; he said ¨you will always have the poor with you ¨. This seems to suggest that true equality is unachieveable, if not impossible. I am at a loss as to how to interpret this other than to come back to our innate abiity to exerise personal freedom. If I hoard my wealth and do not give to the poor then we will always have the poor. Psalm 8 touches on this and I have often pondered on its significance. Did God make some black so as to create inequality which would provoke prejudice? I think not as prejudice comes from us and not God. What a can of worms. Suffice to say you have written an excellent poem which has many of our members deep in thought. Thank you again. Keith

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raypool

Mon 2nd Apr 2018 22:04

Hi Keith. Your knowledge of Biblical matters is far superior to mine. I have no quotable point of references from which to defend my writing, so with due humility, I will say that I was not trying to quote God in the first verse as a finite authority from which to draw all wisdom, In fact how can we ascribe any plan to God except from our own experiences? One of my great sadnesses in life is to see so much devastation and loss of reason to aspire by those deprived of equality. Can it ever be different, with or without a belief? Mysterious ways are something I can identify with, and I do rely on intuition and other mental convictions. God knows I do try.

I do appreciate your point of view, which can never wholly coincide with my own, and ascribe this to some aspect of inequality.

Ray

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keith jeffries

Mon 2nd Apr 2018 21:21

Hello Ray,
This poem seems to have generated some comment but I am a little perplexed as to the original statement that God made/created all men equal. I don´t think God ever said or intended this to be the case. Nor did he mention equal opportunites. In His image yes but that is another matter. We are all unique in our personal creation as no two people are alike. Diversity is an essential part of creation which complicates matters in every aspect of life. The word equality appears only a few times in the New Testament, not in the Old, but this makes no reference to creation. As a believer I was drawn to David´s comment that the faithful speak of God moving in mysterious ways. This I would subscribe to as this poem has come upon a mystery. If I am not mistaken the first person to use the expression that all men are created equal was Thomas Jefferson of the United States. Thank you for this. Keith

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raypool

Mon 2nd Apr 2018 20:26

I'm coming back to precis my comments of last night , trying to simplify my views which were like a curious dog on a long lead.
I do appreciate that the subject matter of the poem is a hard one to define in easy terms. So thanks you all for going to the trouble of putting personal views.

If all of us were equal in our own eyes, that would be an excellent recipe for peace. It is always worth treating others irrespective of their position in life as being worthy of respect. We know that is asking the impossible, unless we think of the hypothetical perfection that a God may tempt us with. If everyone were born equal that would be a travesty of all the aims we dedicate ourselves to in life. There is the rub. "God" the reverse of a coin whose front shows the human condition.

Col. Brian and Racha thanks for looking in.


Ray

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raypool

Sun 1st Apr 2018 22:02

I just lost my twenty minute response to your valued comments. I havn't got the energy to repost it tonight sorry. x

Ray

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Hazel ettridge

Sat 31st Mar 2018 20:39

David: god and confusion in the same sentence? Aaaargh! Yes!!

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Hazel ettridge

Sat 31st Mar 2018 18:37

Comment to David: you seem to hold strong opinions about God and people. I am an atheist. People use many words for whatever it is that makes sense of life for them. I'm happy to use the term God for expedience sake. I believe we have made God in our image, not the other way around. I I think you make a lot of presumptions.

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suki spangles

Sat 31st Mar 2018 13:35

It was more than okay, Ray. And this is as good a time as any to ponder such questions..

Thanks for sharing,
Suki

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Martin Elder

Sat 31st Mar 2018 13:00

I agree with Hazel in that the way God defines what we see as equal may well be different to ours . A thought provoking poem Ray
Nice one

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Cynthia Buell Thomas

Sat 31st Mar 2018 12:56

Well, a little bit garbled and in delightful ambiance with your topic. Excellent ending. A good read.

Thanks for your continued support of my work. I always appreciate your input.

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Hazel ettridge

Sat 31st Mar 2018 10:13

Maybe equality in God's eyes is a very different thing to what it is in man's eyes. Like, he loves us equally whatever we get up to, whereas we are incredibly judgemental about what anyone and everyone gets up to.

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Tom Harding

Fri 30th Mar 2018 23:14

Very interesting ray. I couldn't read it without hearing the Bob Dylan song God Knows.

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