In the short time that I have been visiting the WOL site, there have been a number of occasions when a poem has been critiqued to a level that the writer has found objectionable.

Some writers in the early stages of their poetry/WOL experience, have appeared to come close to leaving the site, which is, to say the least, generally undesirable.

On the other hand, there are many writers who welcome positive fedback and/or advice.

How are we, the readers, to know whether the writer is looking for criticism and advice (and at what level), or merely offering the work purely for us to read. It may be simple for the writer to add a 'warning' notice at the foot of the blog, but this may only occur to those more seasoned writers.

I wonder if it would be possible for an additional option could be made to the site, at the time of posting, to allow the writer to let all and sundry know what they are looking for, in terms of feedback. We are already able to 'Remove' or 'Edit' a poem once posted. Obviously I wouldn't want to cause problems to the tech squad.

Surely, one of the main aims of WOL is to encourage the development of new poets, whilst allowing a stage for the more accomplished. An over-heavy critique wouldn't appear to be the best form of encouragement for the fledgling poet (or me for that matter).

I look forward to the discussion that I hope will follow, and (probably) the brick-bats that come along.

Steve, this is an excellent recommendation. It has been raised before, but perhaps not so straightforwardly. It IS hard to know what to say - like walking on eggshells. There have been comments which rightly point out that 'I like this' is not really valuable at all: more meat is desired. Other bloggers have a hissy fit. Clarification would be great. I hate dancing around - it's time and energy consuming.

Since being misconstrued and then totally savaged by one particularly fragile ego on here, I am very cautious about offering anything in the way of critique anymore, except maybe humourous or querulous and then only to poets who seem to have a sense of humour or self deprecative attitude.

I really appreciate it if someone has clearly read something more than once and has spotted a possible improvement or even just a spelling mistake, and taken the time to offer their advice.

It's nice to be told that people liked your poem and even nicer to be told why they liked it, it's just not always that helpful. When I used to play in a band we had a saying which was 'you learn nothing from a good gig'. It was the times you screwed up that were the best learning events. Whilst there are numerous wonderful poems on here there are loads of dreadful ones too...but I don't expect the authors want to hear that...and I, for one will not be telling them.

And it's not just all about opinion. Some poems are definitely 'better' than others, and some are just plain 'bad'.

IMHO

: )

Jx

If you want your poem seriously critiqued, perhaps the answer is to either post it on the critique discussion thread or send it to someone whose critique you really trust and who has the time to do it. The latter is my preference.
Once it is up on blogs - I feel it is pretty much a fait accompli. I guess you can fiddle around with it a bit bit not too much or you start to irritate people. I certainly don't want to read the same poem a million times over with slight changes of language or nuance - I just don't have the time - or is that just me?
I think you start to get a feel for who you can offer critique to and who you can't - though I guess once you go down that route, it is easy to step over the line. I don't really have time to offer critique - cos it really does involve a lot of thought. When I read poetry, I do it for my pleasure - I want to connect with the poet and the subject matter - it doesn't always matter to me if there are imperfections - just so long as it doesn't make me cringe. If I wanted to sit down and thrash around with structure and word choice, then I'd be writing more poetry myself. So I guess we should be grateful for those of us on here that take time to offer critique - they just have to be sensitive about how they offer it and who they offer it to...

I agree pretty much with what Isobel has said, but I suppose I'm coming more from the point of the newish, less experienced bloggers who may wander on to the site.

At times, when I'm looking for opinion, I tend to prefer sending a poem to someone I trust, before posting, but I don't wish to be adding a rider to every poem I write, saying that I am not seeking a critique.

I have seen first-timers get savaged, not knowing what they are letting themselves in for, and perhaps this might be better covered by the etiquette spelled out so clearly by Paul, in the last week, which could perhaps be displayed slightly more prominently?

I pretty much agree with all that has been said here so far ( even yours John, lol,) - no defence of fragile ego's today - your comment was a general one about poetry which in parts I agreed with, but disagreed with the manner and way it came across, but then it is easy for comments and language used to be miscontrued and misread.

My blogs are wide open to criticism, and I welcome feedback that doesn't just say 'I like the poem' or 'good poem', I always want to know why?( so I can do it again ) also at the other end of the scale, if someone doesn't like it, or thinks that the structure needs tightening or they think I'm talking a load of twaddle, I would want to know why? (so I don't do it again ) If I feel that if the criticism is constructive at times I will try it out, If not then just thank them for their comment and the time and interest that they took to read my poem.

Why do we really blog our poems? maybe that's what each individual needs to ask themselves when blogging a poem. We do it initially to see how many people like the poem we have written, but shouldn't it be more gratifying that people take an interest in the poem, whether that be to offer advice, constructive criticism, or praiseworthy commentary, and also remember the sheer subjectivity of poetry to the reader, not everyone is going to read a piece in the way that it was intended to be read by the writer, and people have found things in my scribblings that if I had written them with intention would have been genius.

There are many poems that are blogged that pass by without a comment, which is a shame because of the time and effort that the writer has taken to write the poem and then put it up on the blogs, but many are afraid to comment on them in case they may upset a 'fragile ego', or maybe incur the wrath of a not so fragile ego - how do we asses the ego's? we don't all have the time to flip back to the poet's profile, and even then we don't always get the answers. There are poems that I have read that I have thought that the beginning is genius but it trails off into nothingness, and others that I have read that a few lines stand out as brilliant, so I comment on them - not that am an expert, purely from a totally subjective point of view.

It's a difficult one. As Isobel stated, after a while people get to know who likes straightforward criticism and who doesn't, who needs encouragement and who doesn't want it, who wants to know the opinion of others and who doesn't - I have learned this by trial and error also over the past few months since I became a member of WOL.

Maybe an easy way around any confusion would be to ask the poets themselves through their profile, have a look at the new poets joining the site, look at the poetry reviews. I know a few do this already and welcome new poets, and you don't need me to say who you are. And for the more egotistical poets if advice and criticism is unecessary, and not needed let people now, but don't be upset if you are one of the lucky ones whose poetry becomes published and reknowned and some degree student tears it to shreds in a paper.:-)

I wonder how many readers look, in detail, at a Profile. A newish poet may not even think to put an 'I don't want any critique' warning on it. I know it took 2 or 3, what I believed were OTT critiques of my stuff before I put something on to my Profile, to the effect that I wasn't looking for any critique at all. Not that I'm egotistical ;-)), it's just that I write for my own enjoyment.

As a newishcomer on WOL, I saw a crit of someone elses work (another newcomer) that looked like War & Peace. This equally almost made me walk. Maybe it's me being over-sensitive :-)). I just think that a new 'blogger' will generally feel more at home if he is not attacked early on.

For me, there is a difference in asking for advice, and asking for a critique.

This discussion was started to see if there was any desire/need/ benefit from having something (a Yes/No) on the blog, that allowed the blogger to advise what level of comment he/she was looking for