Hi Everyone,

I have often been puzzled about the use`of line breaks in poetry - I suspect others have been too. Since there don't seem to be any (and I hesitate to use the word) "rules" or conventions that I'm aware of, I thought I would open up the subject to find out how everyone else perceives and uses line breaks.

When reading poetry it seems to me that in many cases line breaks are used purely arbitrarily, or to fit a "visual" structure. In my own case I think I generally use line breaks either semi-instinctively, or as a substitute for, or form of punctuation.

Is anyone out there aware of any conventions for their use or guidance on any conventions - if indeed there are any? What is your own thinking on line breaks? How do you tend to use them? Do you find that some uses of line breaks adds to or detracts from a poem? (Examples please!) If line breaks are purely arbitrary do you see this as part of the artistic/creative process - or something more "mechanical"?

I'll confess here and say that for me, in many cases, injudicious use of line breaks can ruin a poem, if they break up the reading flow so much as to make the poem seem stilted. I'm not sure I understand why anyone would want to do this - unless it's for some specific effect.

Any thought you could share would be appreciated.

Regards,
A.E. (Puzzled in the rural westcountry.)

Oh dear Anthony. I have a feeling that the can of worms that you are on the verge of opening will be a whopper.
This question/enquiry is in the same vein as "punctuation" and there is a lively thread somewhere else on here about that.
I suspect that much of the comment will be along the "there are no rules" line.
I personally find poetry that is too challenging to read rhythmically loses a lot of its impact and is therefore diminished. Difficult line breaks, balances and syllable metering are of course different in the written to the spoken. Anyway, put your tin helmet on quick, here they come!!!

I find that poets who write more 'performance' type stuff have a completely different way of organising their line breaks to, say, 'page' poets.

For myself, it depends on whether it is a formal structure, or what I am tinkering with in my head at the time. Eg I once wrote a poem with 3 lines in each verse, purely because it was bible-influenced and 3 is a big number int bible.

Other times I have written poems in a structure of 2, 3 and 4 lines each, or something else entirely that only really makes sense to me.

If I'm going to perform a poem however, I will write it out for my eyes only the way that I am going to read it. The emphasis and breathing are the important things then.

As Laura was hinting at, it does depend on the kind of poetry you're writing. If a visual element is involved, as in 'visual' or 'concrete' poetry, then you break the lines according to the poems appearance on the page.

If you're using 'form', you obviously have the limits of the form: iambic pentameter is 10 sylables per line (or there about - some variations are allowed).

If you are using free verse, then you can break according to phrase, or according to 'breath' - each line a breath as in Alan Ginsburg.

But then there's things like: to endstop or not to endstop. to enjamb or not to enjamb. Whether one wants to disrupt the reading process or not, which one might want to do sometimes.

I am a smoker and once told a non-poeting and non-smoking friend that my poems were mainly long and thin and she said that was because I put the line break where I take a breath, therefore as my lungs are smoke addled I use more line breaks...I dunno...it's a thought though.

Thanks for your comments Graham/Laura.

Yes, it probably is another can of worms - but I'm not scared of a few "oligochaetes" - lovely little creatures who do the unpaid spadework in my garden.

it probably is close to the punctuation thread, but different in the sense that punctuation has (if one cares to use them) well defined conventions.

Page poetry, by its very nature, is surely written with the intention of someone reading it - or what's the point of committing it to paper? If line breaks make this more difficult, or are not done for a specific effect, e.g. a "shape poem" then what do they actually acheive in a poem and how is it decided where they should be?

All of us, I would suggest, read more prose than poetry, therefore our brains/eyes are used to reading things that are set out clearly, punctuated conventionally and with line breaks only used to denote new sentences, to demarcate quotations or when we are in danger of running off the edge of the paper! Whereas in poetry I have seen many instances where line breaks fragment phrases and sentences, making the poem more difficult to read comprehensibly. I guess what I'm really after is thoughts as to why some poems are arranged thus, when clearly it detracts from the word/thoughts/messages within?

Laura, I take your point entirely, and for reading I would do exactly the same - maybe even inserting more punctuation for my own clarity. it's not so much the stanza/verse construction I was referring to though, but the "technique" if you like, of literally "breaking a line" i.e. at some
point in
the phrase/sentence/thought
ending that
line and
continuing on the
next.

Where do poets choose to break their lines, and perhaps more importantly, why?

Bring on the worms!

Regards,
A.E.

Well
the rule I alw
ays follow is
tha
t of cou
nti
ng very carefully
the num
ber of sy
l
l
able
s
in each line to
ensure it is per
fec
tly balanced
and conforms t
o
my rule

Which is another way of saying, I do what feels right to me in free verse, but conform to the given rule in "chained" or structured verse.

What use is haiku?
So much to say, and only
seventeen syllab...

Hmmm . . . then there's Win and his ghazals - one minute there's loads of rules, then there's just a couple of rules, then there's new rules - I think he makes it all up! ;-)

I've come to this thread late, which is a shame since I like it. I would agree with most of what has been said. In performance poetry, you tend to make the line break fit in with how you would perform a poem - the stresses and the pauses.

In formal page poetry, the line breaks are determined by the syllables and rules, I guess.

However, it is paramount for the reader, that the poet preserves good flow throughout the poem. To answer your question Anthony - occasionally poets do sacrifice this flow for syllable count and a formal structure. Writing formal verse isn't easy - at the end of the day, you just have to have an ear for it as well as the ability to count. Otherwise your formal, structured poetry sounds shite :) Sorry to introduce that dreaded word and I'm really not looking for any arguments! xx

I don't count anything I'm afraid - lines, syllables, words whatever. I think the trick is to read aloud what you have written, even if it is not for performance. Read it and listen - then you should know how it should look on the page. (And what's enjambement when it's at home by the way? ;-)

PS - you're only seven hours late Isobel - I'm sure we'll forgive you! x

Thank you Ann! x

I was just musing to myself over whether having a musical ear was an advantage in writing/appreciating poetry... and deciding where the line breaks go!

Anthony
I realised the importance of punctuation and grammar when I told my auntie that I'd helped uncle jack off his horse.

I don't think it's punctuation or grammer you need but CAPITAL LETTERS. ie helped Uncle Jack off his horse - silly!

I use line breaks based upon syllable count if writing to meter. And in accordance with any demands of form, if writing to a given structure.

e.g The rhyme scheme of a given sonnet or the Kigo and Kireji of a Haiku.

If writing in freer forms, line breaks depend upon many things for me.

If I am using end line devices;

Rhyme (sound or eye), slant rhyme, alliteration, assonance, consonance, simile, onomatopoeia, triads, siblance etc.

Then I will choose my language and line break accordingly.

Enjambment or not enjambment.
That is the
question?

I use enjambment at times, with and without the use of caesurae, both in metered and non metered poetry. Hiding the image around the corner is something that can be pleasing. It affects my line
breaks
when
enjambment
is used
in non metered verse.

I also use line breaks judiciously according to personal taste in free verse in order to promote the imagery and clauses that I wish to push to the fore. I think most of us do that.

I would have thought there are many more reasons why we have line breaks the way we do. More detailed and subconscious reasoning. The difficulty in stating fully the underlying reasoning and nuances will relate in part to the subconcious.

One interesting thing about this discussion is the idea that some line-endings are 'difficult' and that might be a 'problem.' Well, that's fine but what if you want to be a little bit difficult, to challenge expectations maybe, to be a little bit unexpected? Or even a lot? Does all poetry have to be easily assimilable or understood? Punctuation and line-breaks can be used to actually make the poem less familiar; is that a bad thing?

It was for my uncle

Since I profess that the visual definitely steers the poem's effect, I work extensively on line breaks as a major part of the editting process. Formal poetry sets rules in which line breaks are a given. In Free Verse my first 'turns' sometimes stay in place, but not often. For me, a break must have a defined reason, whether it be for thought, image or music. I always read my work out loud on the principle that the eye will mock the tongue; what speaks well will read well. If I stumble, then I reconstruct, sometimes the whole work into a different order, or different forms of speech or vocabulary itself. I have realized that the line breaks in each of three versions of a written poem could 'work', but in a different way; so I have to decide clearly what I want to emphasize. Each line break is its own challenge.

<quote>Page poetry, by its very nature, is surely written with the intention of someone reading it - or what's the point of committing it to paper?</quote>

Or - if it's visual/concrete poetry - looking at. The page as canvas.

For me line breaks are instinctive, I don't know the rules, therefore I use the already mentioned techniques of reading aloud, especially if it's free verse.

Structured verse is easy it's a matter of syllables, though fitting my thought into the required count isn't always easy!

After working a piece in rough I write it up in a note book and often change the line breaks to fit the book, which bizarrely often makes the poem "work" and sometimes I'll let the line extend and break where it wants to, even though the untidiness of it on the page displeases my eye.

I do get confused by poets who use line breaks that seem to follow no particular or distinct reasoning and find it detracts from the piece. I prefer to complete a thought on a line, unless it is weighted by carrying over or for the sake of flow or emphasis.

We are all of us different and when reading a piece with line breaks that don't do what I want them to I ignore the oddness of the breaks and try to understand the words.

I'd agree you Petrova. This thread has made me consider line ends a lot more though.

I've enjoyed hearing about John Coopey's uncle's horse also - and all that jacking...

In response to your last post Steven; no, I don't think it's a bad thing. I guess it rests on the "intent" of the writer. I have seen many poems that benefit from unconventional layout - I have also seen poems that don't.

It's my guess that there are poets who follow fashion, if you like; making their poetry less intelligible by unconventional layout simply because they've seen someone else do it. If there's a good and justifiable reason for break with convention then that's fine. But, if someone is following a layout purely to make a poem look more avant garde for no particular or explicable reason, and in the process diminishing its readability/intelligibility then that seems a little pretentious to me.

What I think I'm trying to say is that (for me) the words/meaning/message/thoughts in a poem ought not to take second place to the layout. Sure, the layout can complement the content, but when the content is sacrificed for the "shape" then that's exercising a different discipline altogether - more akin to jigsaws and geometry than literary skill.

Just a personal view, no doubt some would disagree - as is their right!

Regards,
A.E.