I post this line of Discussion, more in disappointment than annoyance, as a means for some discussion, hopefully, to take place as to the encouragement of writers and poets to involve themselves with the WOL site

I have recently attempted to become a Member of the community that I believed to be Write Out Loud.

After my first unsuccessful attempt, I was told that I had to include a ‘Sample’ poem for my ‘Profile’. This I did, though I couldn’t think why this should be required. The times that I have ventured onto the site, I have seen a huge range of poems posted, from deep and meaningful, to wtitty, to peurile.

I then posted a poem as a ‘Sample’, nothing earth-shattering, but simple.

I have now been made aware that I have to expand on my ‘Profile’ before I can be accepted as a new member. Should I not wish to do so, I have been told that my temporary presence on WOL will expire/lapse after 1 month (which is now only a few days away).

Shouldn’t anyone be allowed to become a member, with all the priveleges, without having to complete a questionnaire. WOL - poetry site or social contact?

I have a vision of Dylan Thomas or Brendan Beehan being told that he can’t become a member of WOL, without providing a sample of their work, or a satisfactory profile.

I’m not a prolific (or particularly talented) writer, and have contented myself for some time with other avenues of putting my work out to a wider audience. I am therefore allowing my application to lapse

Any thoughts? I shall watch with interest

I am puzzled by your comments Steve. I don't remember any onerous hoops to jump through when I joined WOL but maybe that's because I was keen to post poetry as much as read the work of others.

I don't see why joining WOL as an observer and commenter should necessarily be precluded - there are far too few of them around - many new joiners preferring just to post.

Anyone wanting to just read poetry without commenting or posting would be better not having a profile though. I can't see what the point of it would be.

I'm hopeful that you stay and start to enjoy WOL more fully. It can be fun in the right circumstances. Many of us start off not being great writers but improve. It's great when you can see that happening to another poet - or you produce something yourself where you just know you've lifted the bar.

Hi there. This is my area of the web team.

There is a more that room for a long debate about this one, but briefly.

There are no onerous hoops to jump through to become a member of WOL. It is a simple process open to all. All that is required is to fill in the following in the create a profile area

1) name
2) email address
3) provide a picture
4) provide a sample poem or two
5) provide BRIEF biog details.

Many new members have genuine questions about one or more of these areas and I encourage them and guide them through. Some people want to enter lots of detail some don't, either is fine.

I have had an email conversation with Mr Woodsome about this already and I hope I have made it clear that he is more than welcome as a new member here to take part in WOL to whatever extent he wishes.

Winston (Admin, New Members)

If anyone would like to see the range of info in some new profiles then have a look at the 'Our Latest New Members Link' below. 14 people have established a profile this month alone -
http://www.writeoutloud.net/public/newsgroupview.php?NewsGroupsID=36&NewsThreadsID=1026#msgcontent_12142

My intention for a discussion, was more along the lines of - why?
why a picture?
why a biog.?
maybe even why a sample poem?

the only piece of info that I can see that is really required, is an email address. I think it quite likely that several of the contributors use a nom de plume

I've just had a quick look on the Showcase section, and picked out Ann Foxglove (I see as a regular contributor)
Picture? A brown-paper fox?
Biog? A poet living in Cornwall

As I said at the top, my question is more about why?

I was just browsing and spotted this thread so here's my general thoughts :-)

Steve - all that a profile asks you to do is provide a few words in a bio. Maybe include a sample of your work if you want to.
Yes it also asks you to provide your email address but there is an option whether or not you wish others to see it via a simple tick box :-)

Many poets here who receive comments on their poetry like to thank the one who commented or perhaps have a discussion via the profile on your feedback. It isn't possible to do that where you cannot be found.
The photo is also optional. You can simply upload the one you use at present or a google image for example if you'd rather not show yourself.
Have you browsed through other profiles? It would give you some ideas.

There are many people who browse wol from the outside and others who are very prolific writers as well as people like me who joins in when i have time and/or something i'd like to share. The experience is yours and there really is no pressure just so long as it doesn't become an issue :-)
Like life - your experience on wol is what you make it :-)

If you decide to stay and set up a brief and basic profile i hope you enjoy it as much as many many other people do. Some of whom rarely or never post a poem at all but enjoy reading.

ps. just seen your latest post Steve?
many poets who use wol also visit the many gigs available all over the country. If you browse the 'galleries' there are plenty photos of the poets here.
The subject of nom de plumes has been raised lots of times and it is one that many simply accept now as long as mutual respect in their comments and/or in discussions is granted.

My own thoughts of nom de plumes in general is that some people might have very good reason for not wanting their true persona known and visible to all who visit the internet.I personally prefer to take a positive view of it as opposed to becoming paranoid :-)

I must say - I like to see a photo attached to a poet - whether it is just a google image, a cartoon or the real person. It makes their comments more easily identifiable - you start to identify them with the image. I find the grey question mark rather bland.

I suppose the idea is to inject a bit of colour and interest into the site and into profiles. I enjoy choosing mine - I've been everything from an ostrich to a pair of shoes...

I love the smiling Isobel ;-)

Dear Steve, ostrich/smiling, Janet(now with hair raised) and brown paper fox.

Yes the why is just as an important a question as the how!

This is a good discussion and some excellent reasons have been given so far. I might add

1) The more put in to something the more you get out
2) The brown paper fox has at times been a photo of a real person! (sorry Ann, I know you can speak for yourself)
3) There are many other chat / blog sites / forums on poetry and alsorts else which DO have just a name / tag. I would like to think WOL is richer and better for not following that model.
4) Nome de plumes are not a problem and there are many on WOL. It is still simple to fill out the profile page with this in mind. confidentiality is guarenteed. Some people like to start this way, then start commenting, then when they gain confidence post poems themselves.(Thats what we're about)
5) Better profile = Better communications = better on line community.

Win

Related to this thread and completely by coincidence (You will just have to believe me) is the fact that the web team are having a look at the issue of existing brief profiles on WOL.

Win

Hello all, here's my twopennyworth.

Over the years I have joined and left quite a few blogsites and one thing is common to all. Many subscribers either put a false picture of themselves (some of which are blatantly not themselves) and some give themselves a dodgy name.

Of all those sights WOL appears to be one of the better ones with real names and real faces (not all I imagine) Furthermore, a lot of the people on here evidently meet up regularly at gigs, so I imagine need to be kosher (sorry Jewish subscribers) face to face.

Natural curiosity does however a desire to see "the real" person behind the work I suppose. Why anyone would want to hide their real identity is beyond me (unless they have something to hide)

Personally I'll only ever post a mug-shot of myself (that's bad enough) preferring not to display my less than sylph-like torso to all and sundry.

There may be many a reason that people wish to post anonymously, who cares!

it's only a few qs i would't call it a questionaire..i would't class myself as a poet but i really do find this site helpful..i really think you should just fill in a few measly questions&let us see some more of your work please

I don't know how I came to be enmeshed in this paticular thread! As Win says, I have changed my profile, both words and image many times. It's all part of the fun. You're welcome to my inside leg measurement if you wish - I just find some long winded biogs very boring! And no one could be nicer than Winston - honest! It is possible to comment on WOL without having a profile I believe. You could try that?

ha ha ha im laughing out loud at ur comment ann...i cudnt hv said it betr myself

I don't care if poets are using real names or noms de plumes, personally. It is their poetry that is important - and the humour/camaraderie/interest that they add to the site.

I can think of lots of reasons for having an assumed name; for the posting of raw poetry, for the posting of experimental/crap poetry/ to satisfy a repressed element of their public persona...

So long as nothing sinister is going on, I can't see the harm in it. It is probably sensible not to post under your real full name since it makes it harder to write about your life freely. One has to respect the right to privacy of the people you may write about.

I have been interested following the trains of thought from the various members.
My only reason for wishing to retain some anonimity is that I am a relatively private person. Even then, I still come back to the basic question - WHY? the need to fill in anything.
I can understand that some members may enjoy knowing of the hopes and aspirations of other members, but I don't feel the need to do so. Bear in mind that I could have filled in a complete load of rubbish in my Profile, and no-one would have been the wiser. This again emphasises why there should be a requirement to fill one in.
For general consumption, I am currently in the position where I have submitted my name; my email address; a Google image character for my photo; a one line Profile (keen amateur, hoping to improve); and a Sample poem (not my best perhaps, but certainly not my worst)
Why should anyone wish to have any more than that (or even that)?
I agree with Isobel, that as long as nothing sinister is going on, what's the problem?

Steve,
Can I ask you why you want to put a profile on the site?

I ask this because the assumption we make is that people who put profiles up want to be part of our community.

And like joining any community we think the best way is for a new comer to introduce themselves via their CV, samples and a photo. This gives the existing community a clue as to how to approach the newcomer and gives them something to talk to you about.

If one doesn't give that sort of information then frankly one is likely to be ignored which may lead to the more nervous/reserved type of new member not taking part in the community at all - which is surely why they joined in the first place.

Once one has established oneself on the site and knows a few people then one can do what one likes with the profile.

Though it should be remembered that we get a throughput of new members who will have no idea who you are.

So, in short, we are attempting to make sure that new members are made as welcome as possible and we believe that one of the ways of doing this is providing information that existing members can work with.

Hi again Steve,

1) Your wishes for anonimity are respected and not an issue
2) Other members have opted to give something of themselves, That's their choice. If you do not want to do this then no problem
3) Yes, you could have filled in rubbish. Some do, but this site runs on trust and it's up to you (and yes as New Members admin, me too)
4) Nothing sinister is going on.? I simply asked you to embelish your 'one liner' and sugggested a few ways you might want to do this (Whilst remaining anonimous) before I accepted your profile.
5) Can I suggest that (when it comes to your own case) we can come to a solution quicker if you reply to my emails instead of posting on here. I appreciate this General discussion thread however and encourage your feedback.
6) Join the party.

Win

Interesting thread. Although I can see the force of what Paul and Win are saying (and at the end of the day they call the shots)I don't have a problem with what Steve is saying. His last post above is making some unexceptional points isn't it? People have all sorts of preferences and Steve may well be a valuable member of the community in his own low profile way. Hopefuly he and Win will be able to sort something out.

Policywise, I dislike aliases and agree that background info is helpful but would hope it can be accepted that people have a right to be low profile and use aliases if they wish. I do hope there isn't a policy shift to force people to be higher profile than they want to be

Hi Dave, No , there is no policy shift. Joining up will be as simple as ever (as stated above).

Whether you / I or anyone likes them or not aliases are part of WOL.

Minimal or 'Low profile' profiles are welcome(Within reason). After all these are likely to be the people who will grow and get the most out of WOL (and often do according to my feedback.)

WOL is great. I've been on here for about sixteen months and all I can say is that the WOL "team" do their all to keep us happy. None of them get anything out of it financially, they do NOT throw their weight around, AND they have to put up with us lot! They are ALWAYS trying to improve the site, taking into consideration what "us lot" say. I have always found them (I hate calling them "them") totally helpful and Win is the most warm and welcoming "new members" greater. All I can say is, if you don't like the site maybe it's not for you. It seems a bit much to start to ask that changes be made when you haven't even joined yet. But I wish you luck anyway. And I've updated my profile just for you!

My advice would be to ignore discussions initially. You have to be quite robust before you get stuck in here. We are a colourful bunch and tend to disagree now and again, despite Admin's very best efforts to make us behave. The development of a thick skin is quite important therefore :)

In the meantime, get your profile up and running. Read a bit of stuff until you can suss out who you like and who you don't. Leaving comments is a great way of making friends. It's like anything - you don't know until you try it whether it is for you. If it isn't, you can always take your profile off at a later date. All the best.

Steve
Speaking as the guy who started this whole thing off, I am intrigued that we, who normally go out of our way to remove barriers rather than to raise them, should appear to be doing the latter in your view.
I am as hesitant to provide info to new sites as you are, and assure you that we are not looking for inside leg measurements and assurances that you have not had impure thoughts since you last said a Hail Mary.
I do remember when we began asking for more information and it was when we started getting people registering on the site either for commercial or other nefarious purposes, and we make these, perhap a bit crude, attempts to be reassured that you are a real person and are willing to give something of yourself.
we don't insist and it is not a CV. in any case, I like the fact that you feel OK about discussing your concerns with us.
AS George Bernard Shaw said (a peu pres), the reasonable man adjusts himself to suit the world, the unreasonable man expects the world to adjust to suit him; without the unreasonable man there is no progress. Or similar.
Welcome to Write Out Loud.

Just for curiosity sake Ann, what is your inside leg measurement?

'without the unreasonable man there is no progress'

I like that.

:-)

Jx

And would you be offering up one of your own measurements Graham?

PS I've always considered you a very progressive man John ;-) x

Graham, You can find out on her profile, and much more interesting information besides! Winston

It is a little-known fact that if you know a person's inside leg measurements, you can calculate their poetic propensity. NO, it's true, Honest!

So if we look at the inverse, what are you telling us about yourself Julian - YOU having such a propensity for poetry that you founded the site...?