If all the countries in the world are suffering an economic downturn at the same time, hence global downturn, then where is the money we spent on over spend?

We among all the others lost at the same time, to whom?

Initially money spent goes in one direction: from – to.

Apart from a few pieces of scrap metal orbiting the earth everything that was here on this planet is still here, apart from the billions of trillions of our dosh, moola, smackers, or whatever denomination your money god is.

Isn’t that strange?

Now I’m sure, as poets and writers with intelligent and lively imaginations, we could come up with some very interesting conjectures

The Chinese burnt it in the 14,297 new power stations they open every hour.

The money hasn't gone anywhere, it's just stopped flowing from one hand to another. This is due to people realising that you can't sustain ridiculous amounts of debt forever and that the bubble must burst eventually. It is therefore possible to 're-start' the economy by government intervention. One of the best ways to do this would be, counter-intuitively, to increase benefits. When you put more money in the pockets of the middle classes in times of economic slump they do the clever thing (for themselves) and save it. This just holds up more money from entering the economy. When you give money to the poor (in any phase of the economic cycle) they fulfill their propensity for instant gratification and spend it instantly, invigorating their local economies. Whether this be off-licences, pubs, chippies, baby clothes shops, pound stores, furniture stores, dvd rentals, sports clothing outlets etc, it all goes straight back into the system, creating jobs and spreading wealth.
Like women, poor people are way cool.

I know this isn't very poetic, but it's my take on it.

Money is illusory - where is the wealth?

Blackmail payments made to Martian pirates. They’re holding a reincarnated Karl Marx and threaten to return him unless the payments continue. They've a heap of other reviviified folks to threaten us with should the economy continue to slide.
They were threatening us with Princess Di until they heard the budget.

It is not very poetic, but Siren is talking rubbish.

Increasing benefits to the 'poor' is just raising state without reducing personal debt. That is a crippling burden that we will pass on to our children and grandchildren.

It is true that now the finance and property bubble has burst there is a lack of demand in the economy. It is also true that you have to give purchasing power to people with lower incomes rather than the better off.

The way to do this is to raise personal allowances so that working people on lower incomes cease paying income tax and increase their purchasing power.

Public spending must be reduced rather than increased. People need to be encouraged to provide for themselves and their families rather than being drawn into ever greater state dependency. The present course is unsustainable and Siren's recipe would accelerate progress to complete sovietisation and collapse.

Sorry about the politics. I was provoked.

I will now go and write poetry.

I'm fed up with these anti Martianist diatribes. It's time Radio 4 put on a Martian hour and a Thought for the Red Planet in the mornings at 07.52

Song heard inside a Martian space craft.

Give us your cash
Or
Get Smashed

I'm becoming moxycated...
what Planet am I on?

'The way to do this is to raise personal allowances so that working people on lower incomes cease paying income tax and increase their purchasing power.'

I should have made myself clearer. 'Benefits', in the sense that I used it, included tax benefits like working tax credits, help for single mothers getting back into work etc. I know you don't like it Mal, but we seem to be in agreement on this one. I haven't drawn dole since the bad old days of the early nineties and I have no wish to increase state dependence.

No I don't like it and I won't be forced into it I tell you. Working tax credits are bureaucratic bloody nonsense.

Raising the level at which people pay tax on their incomes helps working single mothers as well as every other low income earner. All the other complex schemes create useless public sector jobs contributing ever more to eventual economic collapse.

When New Labour came to power the state section of the economy was a bloated 39%. Now it is a ruinous 48% and our Darling has just committed us to it getting worse.

I will not tolerate all this agreement.

Mal and Siren

I must roll over and waggle my four feet in the air

I agree with both of you on this very important topic.

Totally right to get the cash back down into the hands of the lower middles and working class, they get stitched up in the first place. Anyone who works either with thier hands or brain deserves a fair share, the system needs unskewing, it was a huge upside down pyramid, level it all off.

Even the idiots at the top know you need a certain amount of cash in the hands of the poor to sustain any system.

I believe in being rich if you choose to, but not at the expense of anyone. Perhaps thats not realistic, I think it is as long as you dont get ridiculous and greedy. If the simple things in life satisfy that is fine, if you have more exotic tastes and wish for luxury go for it, but do not take your eye off the effect on others.

theres only so much money anyone needs, after that it really is greed.

do we even need it? well we need some system.
this could open up into social debate.

See you at Bolton Socialist Club

Pete, I implore you, desist from this folly;you have just declared yourself an enemy of the state by mentioning the word 'socialist'. You run a severe risk of having your front door kicked in at three in the morning by the Met.
Only this morning, I was approached by a police officer who offered me a fistful of dosh if I would snitch on anyone who dissented from the antisocial -ist policies of the Liberal-Labour-Conservative Coalition for the Kicking of Poor People in the Teeth.
Please please please be patriotic, get a job, join up, go and kill some foreigners; a lovely war is always a sure way to give an ailing economy a kick start.

Where's all the money gone? It hasn't gone anywhere - it was never there in the first place. Banks/Building Societys/lenders etc overvalued their assets and financial positions (e.g. mortgages/toxic debts/sub-prime loans) as a result of the bonus culture - the more you have on the balance sheet the greater you earn. Some of these assets/debts never had a hope in hell of being repaid, but were sold simply on the basis of bonuses - with little or no financial scrutiny due to the deregulation of world financial markets. Therefore the global wealth estimates were wildly overstated. Now there is a gaping chasm in world finances, of which there is not a reliable estimate of the size and, which governments haven't a hope in hell of plugging. It seems we are just pouring good money after bad to sustain a system that is fundamentally flawed. It will get worse - much worse.
Regards,
A.E.

Where's all the money gone? It hasn't gone anywhere - it was never there in the first place. Banks/Building Societys/lenders etc overvalued their assets and financial positions (e.g. mortgages/toxic debts/sub-prime loans) as a result of the bonus culture - the more you have on the balance sheet the greater you earn. Some of these assets/debts never had a hope in hell of being repaid, but were sold simply on the basis of bonuses - with little or no financial scrutiny due to the deregulation of world financial markets. Therefore the global wealth estimates were wildly overstated. Now there is a gaping chasm in world finances, of which there is not a reliable estimate of the size and, which governments haven't a hope in hell of plugging. It seems we are just pouring good money after bad to sustain a system that is fundamentally flawed. It will get worse - much worse.
Regards,
A.E.

Money is a system of information that records a transaction, but the information is in paper and coin it can be anonymised and lose its source. In this information age it is recorded in plastic and computer record and doesn't anonymise so people devise money laundering schemes to drop the source information. Curious.
Today is a new moon when you are supposed to turn your money over. Maybe thats to see what colour it is on the other side. Does turning your debit card over count?
The real transactions between people don't need international banks to create them. The Lets Schemes prove that you can create a local economy with a bit of energy and goodwill. Lets schemes go on to be too successful so people get to know each other and swap time and goods for free after a while, so you need a constant flow of new members to keep it going. Local banks were like Lets schemes making their own money but someone invented take-overs and wider regional economies and the bank of England so the local schemes got gobbled up.
Now we look for a bargain and find we are supporting slavery on the other side of the world or even down a local back street and there is no way of knowing.
Wealth and poverty are both a sign of imbalance in the system. Someone is asking too much and someone is being exploited.
Enough is enough.