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QUI ES IN CAELIS (...who art in Heaven...)

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I'm amused by a number of friends who delight in ridiculing Christianity.  Certainly they question the veracity of other religions but ridicule is reserved for Christianilty.

And when I ask myself, “Why?” I reach the conclusion that it's because it's easy; it’s a cheap shot.

Christianity has its zealots, of course, and its wisdom is often questionable but it doesn’t indulge in the types of excesses we see from zealots in other faiths.  It's one of the world’s more benign religions.

And I don’t make this defence as a Christian because I don’t know if I am.  I buy into not killing, I don’t steal much, I haven’t committed adultery (yet), and I don’t covet anything of my neighbour.  I buy into morality and helping others and community.  I voluntarily help with community events and give blood etc.  It’s the stuff about God and his son, Jesus, and his resurrection where I am weaker.  But if others want to believe that, that’s fine by me.  I respect their right.

I work at Selby Abbey as a Verger.  It might just as easily be a synagogue or a mosque, I'd be equally respectful.

Despite my ambivalent views on Christianity no-one has ever challenged my beliefs or lack of them – not the clergy nor the congregation.

They don’t ridicule me and I don’t ridicule them.  It works for us.

◄ WHEN COAL WAS KING

IT'S NOT 5-0 IS IT NOW, GLENN ►

Comments

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M.C. Newberry

Fri 7th Aug 2015 15:56

JC - seen and noted, thanks.
"Political inexactitude"? If that means using logic to
determine whether history sets a precedent for subsequent
behaviour and values, I plead "guilty as charged, your
honour".

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John Coopey

Thu 6th Aug 2015 15:11

In fairness to TC, MC, "ridiculing" was my word. Tommy was quoting me. It's what I thought he was doing on that SNP post of yours.

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M.C. Newberry

Thu 6th Aug 2015 14:45

I've just read the phraseology resorted to by Tommy Carroll
- most impressive - to refer to his "ridiculing" an old post of mine. However, he never did refute my factual point
(he couldn't, of course) that in WW2 the Scots Nationalists
did approach the Nazis with a view to a compatible
arrangement when there was a chance the Allies would
lose the war. Ergo, it showed that the Scots Nationalists
are first and foremost a "me/us above all" party with no
hesitation in seeking its aims/other allies beyond the
United Kingdom when it suits them.

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Harry O'Neill

Wed 5th Aug 2015 22:33



Looking at the terrible warlike-ness of that guy hanging
on the cross there reminds of of some poet or other who once said that we were all sentenced to Life, but that God commuted it to death.

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John Coopey

Wed 5th Aug 2015 11:01

Hello Steve,
I think I am a Methodist. That's when I went to Sunday School as a nipper.
Now I am more of a Fallen Angel. God awaits me muttering under his breath, "I can't wait to meet YOU".

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John Coopey

Wed 5th Aug 2015 08:32

War (and history) is indeed a complicated thing, Harry. Enemies become allies and vice versa.
...and if I was on the internet at 3am I wouldn't tell anyone, Tommy!

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Tommy Carroll

Wed 5th Aug 2015 02:53

John I 'ridiculed' him over his political inexactitude and social consequential inaccuracies not the calendar. Anyhow it's 3am and I can't be arsed being more precise. Tommy

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Harry O'Neill

Wed 5th Aug 2015 00:23

Could I just point out:

1...that casualties in the two (secular) world wars make all
that religious stuff earlier look like pea-shooter affairs (look up your Wiki statistics)

2...Those ancient civilisations in South America had a very `civilised` habit of skinning people alive and chucking them down some of those high pyramid things. (their ancestors seem to have somehow got themselves a Pope
elected recently)

3...When I befriended Horst (one of the last group of German POW`S in 1948 Egypt we were both Christians.
His compatriots had built a charming Bavarian - style church ( I well remember the Stilla Nacht hymn sung at their last imprisoned Midnight Mass.)

4...I just missed the last Italians (who were a legend at
Tel El Kebir Depot.)

5...If we go into the Middle East they`ll be fighting for Islam. We - I suppose - will be fighting for Capitalism,
With the aid Of Saudi Arabia? or Opposition of Iran...And if the Russians get involved what a merry hotch potch that is going to be!

6...Lads, grow up, wars are complicated things.

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John Coopey

Tue 4th Aug 2015 23:32

I'm happy to go along with much of this, Graham; but equally, if someone believes otherwise that's fine by me.

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Graham Sherwood

Tue 4th Aug 2015 20:37

Religion (all of it) has only ever been about power. Power over ignorance, control over fear. The fear of damnation etc.

With science has come knowledge (for all levels of society) and the religious power brokers have lost much of their control.

Belief can be found in everyone to some extent, even atheists believe in something, if not a religious hereafter, a belief in contentment.

Heaven (a horrible promise) can exist here on earth, in our lifetimes if only we could be content and thick-skinned enough to shun false witnesses.

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John Coopey

Mon 3rd Aug 2015 17:52

I agree, MC. I don't defend their violence when it does take place. But I would still argue that it is now one of the world's more benign religions.

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M.C. Newberry

Mon 3rd Aug 2015 16:35

JC - indeed, I noted your use of the present tense...
hence my differentation between the past and today.
However, there are so-called "Christian Militias" bringing
no credit to the faith in backward countries in the
modern world...albeit they might claim they are acting
in self-defence against attacks by others.

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John Coopey

Mon 3rd Aug 2015 08:47

I cannot deny that Christianity has a violent past. But so too did Chingis Khan, but we don't haul the rulers of Mongolia in front of The Hague.
I did say"it's" (= "it is").

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M.C. Newberry

Mon 3rd Aug 2015 02:55

Certainly the various Christian factions fought for supremacy in centuries past, despicably using their
chosen version of the faith to achieve domination,
ignoring the "love your fellow man as yourself"
teachings of Jesus Christ.
But things have moved on apace in developed
countries practising that religion and it has settled
down to a "benign" status in western lands (for many
years), and it can be argued that it is in the less-
developed lands that depredations in its name still
occur as certain "factions" cruelly careless of its teachings fight for supremacy.
Slavers were just as often Arab (non-Christian) -
served by profit-mongers among the leaders of African
tribal nations happy to sell on their countrymen and
women when the opportunity or excuse arose. One
North African country still allowed slavery until very
recently and cases crop up in UK courts of wealthy
incomers from certain lands in that direction keeping
"staff" in conditions of servitude that amount to the same thing.

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John Coopey

Sun 2nd Aug 2015 22:15

Tommy - I think you ridiculed MC Newbury some time ago for raising the Scottish Nationalists overtures to Nazi Germany. You know that was 70 years ago not 2000?

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Tommy Carroll

Sun 2nd Aug 2015 21:32

Christianity has been around for 2,000 years John. You really need to do your maths. British, Spanish Portuguese Christians destroyed Ancient civilizations and peoples in north, central and south America, which included burnings, beheadings, torture and rape. Then there were wars in every European country waged by Christians against Christians. Check the facts. Try checking out the near, middle and far east. Lots of material there John. What about Africa? First were the slavers and armies (Christians) and after the wholesale destruction of millions of villages and lives came the priests bearing crosses. Try reading the facts and the horrors of their benign greetings.

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John Coopey

Sun 2nd Aug 2015 21:12

You don't often hear of beheadings, stonings, throwing from rooftops....

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Tommy Carroll

Sun 2nd Aug 2015 21:10

"it is one of the worlds more benign religions"
Hahahahaha for gods sake someone get me a chair before I fall down.

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