This may have something to do with Dave Bradley’s Discussion thread on mental health, at least tangentially.

After a recent open mic a few of us started discussing the proposition that poetry is best written in an altered state. A couple of people present stated that they couldn’t write without a drink or two or more, someone mentioned writing under the influence of drugs and another talked about getting ideas when having a bad time mentally and creating poems from them when feeling better.

I’m not so sure that one needs to have an external agent to help in the creative process but I feel some of my best ideas, if not poems, come out of somehow being in ‘another place’, an altered state for sure.

So what inspires or drives your best work? Is your poetry written in an altered state?

Very often, what inspires me is seeing other poets perform or reading stuff that you just happen to think is a bit rubbish and then unintentionally parodying it but, in the process, going to a totally "other" level with it. I know that some people will probably read this last statement and some might think that maybe I'm a bad person, but hopefully anyone who knows me well knows that I'm definitely a bad person and there's no maybe about it.

So your state isn't altered at all Dermot - just an extension of your already malign character.

Extreme emotions like anger, sadness can do it for me - I guess that is an altered state. Failing that a bit of heroine or some blow ;)

Bloody 'ell! What a good topic for a thread. I fear I might be in too much of an altered state to respond, but I'll give it a go. I guess my first altered state was bereavement. That is what got me going poetically. Inspiration is, in itself, an altered state. A sort of madness where you have this idea and you just have to get it down on paper/computer - out there! It can become an addiction, it can be therapy. I admit to using WOL as therapy. It helps that I write under an alias. Some days I just wake up and I have to write a poem and I have to post it on here. It's a sort of madness. I can blurt out exactly how I feel - I can say, in a poem, stuff I couldn't tell most of the people I know. For me, a glass of wine might help, but it's emotion that alters my state.

Agree absolutely with Ann - I joined WOL as a kind of therapy - and I just wanted someone to listen to me and care a bit that I had something to say.
The altered state I repeatedly find myself in is depression - and my writing output rockets during those times, sadly the quality of what I write - doesn't.
I've never tried writing on drugs ... unless you count anti-depressants, but hey Isobel - if you're recommending it ... ;)
Cx

Good topic, Paul. For me, part of poetry is in some way 'being real'. And late at night when the busyness of the day has subsided is generally the time when 'reality surfaces'. Things that have been lurking around make themselves known, and the feelings and perceptions sometimes work themselves out as poetry.

Is that 'alone, late at night' feeling an altered state? I think it is, but perhaps a mild one compared to what strong emotions or cunning substances can do to us.

Obviously, if you're all "buttoned up" you probably couldn't write poetry, so altering your state by whatever means can enable you to "let go" and free yourself up to be creative. But, is that necessarily true for writing all types of poetry? If you were writing some complicated sonnet or something, I guess that would be different. You'd have to concentrate and count syllables or whatever. It would be almost a mathematical exercise. Precise delicate subtle poetry - could The Wasteland have been written in an altered state? I can't imagine so. Maybe altered states make it easier to write poetry, but the poetry might not be very good!

Again - I agree with you Ann. As I said - my writing output rockets, but not the quality.
When I joined WOL I did so anonymously, and in a terribly ill state - I really didn't care much what I put out there - I just wanted it out there and not in here where it hurt.

However, like a lot of people do, I got drawn in to the site - to the fantastic people who populate this site, made friends and started showing my face. And the more poetry I read, both on and off site, the more I realised that mine is pretty bad.

Poetry-wise - the upside is that I am getting better at recognising the skill and crafting that has gone in to writing good poetry instead of just having an emotional response to it (though that is good too); the downside - that I don't feel most of mine is good enough to show anyone else at this time ... so I've kind of lost the therapy side.

In Paul's opening comment he said that one person had said that they got everything written down whilst in a bad state mentally, and then created a poem from it when feeling better - which is probably the way I should be approaching it. Sort of throwing everything out of the cupboard and then when calmer, having a proper sort through and replacing just what you need in an orderly fashion.

Or maybe it is time to find some other way of altering my state - meditation or something. Or just wait for Isobel to organise her party ...?
:)

When I was first on WOL I was getting so much out of writing my poems, not only letting out some of my grief but I was also going through a re-discovery of myself. There was sex and sultryness in there as well as sadness, and I was having fun with it as well as therapy - depending on my mood. Then I went on an Arvon course, and started to try and make my poetry better. I think a wrote a handfull of quite good poems, and got a few comments on here like "You've improved" or "Your best poem". And I really appreciated that. But then I got stuck, trying to be a good poet and leaving the therapy behind. I got self concious. Now I'm just back to letting my feelings out. And after feeling "blocked" for a while, I'm feeling more like writing. And I'm not going to care any more if it's rubbish - I'm not going to try and impress anyone, I'm not going to enter any competitions or take myself seriously any more. I'm going to go with the flow! I'm never going to be a brilliant poet, but some of my stuff does seem to connect with people, and for me that's better. And I agree with Chris about the lovely people on WOL. They've helped me loads!

I've tried writing in altered states. I've been down A Mine, in Taxes and I've even tried Not Washing. Didn't help a bit, still rubbish.

Ray - have you tried a Cool Road in an OLD cardigan? It might suit you better.

A couple of spliffs certainly gets my brain (or what's left of it) to a different place. The problem is that I'm usually too indolent by then (and my fingers too sticky with chocolate) to communicate those glittering insights to paper. And afterwards I've forgotten . . .

Regards,
A.E.

My state 'alters' according to the experience that triggers the need to express myself. Sometimes it is a swift shaft that impales my mind and demands my pen, and sometimes an idea just sifts and shifts until it gathers into a coherent shape, like a sand dune, ready to be recognized as something worth writing down.
Alcohol or cannabis have never been really inspirational. Mostly I keep my whole self open, and receptive, and clear-headed.

I had a mental break-up when I was twenty-seven, in conjunction with mono. It taught me a lot - mostly that the whole scenario was one hell of a waste of a good year.

Ann, apparently 'The Wasteland' was much longer than we know it today. Ezra Pound did an editting job on it that decimated the original, and quite cool-mindedly and cold-bloodedly if recent reports are true. I've always thought it should have been an acknowledged collaboration.

Jesus Christ, Anthony, I wasted several precious minutes trying to reconstruct "old cardigan" into a state. Play the game, son.

Of course it's a state. In Wales! ;-)

Meanwhile, in the state of Lancashire, or Greater Manchester if you prefer, I’m left speechless by Cynthia’s mind altering swift shaft….

I’d agree with loads of points made. Mind altered states don’t necessarily result in good poetry. Just think of the times you’ve dragged yourself out of sleep to write some gem down and then find it to be absolute rubbish in the morning.
I do think that having a brain that is wired differently, unconventionally let us say, can lead to very natural and exciting poetry – the kind that gives you a tingle when you read it. I suppose those people must be already predisposed to good poetry though. There must be plenty of unconventional thinkers who write tosh also.

Chris, I was fibbing about the substances - I've led a boringly normal life. I like the idea of correcting all that at a WOL party one day. Perhaps we could invite Anthony along! I imagine we could produce a collaborative Wasteland all of our own...

Izzy beat me by a few minutes...I was going to comment on the inspirational power of a swift shaft too. :-)

I've pretty well tried everything mind altering over the years and my experience is that they only seem to help at the time but in reality they impair creativity.

I definitely think I write more and better poetry when I'm feeling anxious and depressed, but I'm not sure if I really do...or not.

I do know that, when I first joined WOL, I was not at all well.

I'm well now.

Jx

Foul minds think alike :)

I'm glad you are well now John. I think many on here have suffered. That seems to be what connects us. It's just great to break through the clouds though and find some fun and happiness. That is what I like about this site - though like all things, it has its cycles. x

some great comments here :-)

I'm of a similar mind to Chris and something of Isobel too in that mood and feeling gives me a poetic writing buzz, that isn't to say that the poetry is particularly outstanding but it is poetry ;-)

Like Ann, when i try too hard to get it 'right' it inevitably loses its appeal for me and the general flow comes to a stand-still. Maybe that shows my lack of poetic knowledge though it isn't for the want of trying.

As for spliffs etc.... no thanks!
My mind body and spirit are more than capable of inducing a hypnotic state or alternative state and i utilize that for other mediums rather than poetry these days :-)

Poetry produced in the altered state can sometimes be about the state itself

From Gerard Manley Hopkins -

"O the mind, mind has mountains; cliffs of fall
Frightful, sheer, no-man-fathomed.
Hold them cheap
May who ne'er hung there.”

Is there a better description of the darker side of the inner landscape (what Hopkins called 'Inscape')? In his case it drove him to create extraordinary trail-blazing poetry, some of which was about the state itself.

Quote 'I'm glad you are well now John. I think many on here have suffered.' Quote

Whatchoo talkin' about Willis?

You saying I cause pain and suffrin'?

:-)

Only joking, although I do think there's alot of 'I suffered for my art...and now it's your turn' stuff that does go on here.

There probably isn't a mental health ward, project, or rehab facility in the land that hasn't produced a poetry compendium from the patients/clients at some time. I've seen dozens, and they are always packed full of utterly dreadful poetry. Cathartic it may be, but artful? Almost never.

IMHE

:-)

Jx

Well now I think of it John...

and what is your humble E - a mind altering substance?

In My Huge Experience

:-)

E's were a blast for a while, but mostly led to me buying enormous rounds of drinks for complete strangers at gigs.

I bought a dozen Mancunians a pint of Guinness each at a Stone Roses gig in the Ally Pally just 'cos I'd got to the bar first and I liked their accents. Given that I am a Leeds Utd. fan of forty five years standing I think that pays testimony to the ability of E's to soothe the savage breast. It was Saturday the 18th of November 1989. I still have the ticket.

:-)

jx

Great topic this, great responses also. A lot of comonality between them. I think the strongest concept for me is 'poetry bringing us together through the expression of pain and problems in our lives' it is such a powerful thing.

I have lots of real stories about lives completely changed through thoughts expressed in poetry and many others of lives improved.

Another altered state is an endurance cycle ride. (My profile pic shows this at the mo) Lots of my ideas and lines come this way. E.g. spent 12 hrs cycling 200km last week and must have stopped 20 times to write a line about a dead pheasant. Look out for the poem soon on blogs. Win x

Mmmm, a poem about a dead pheasant - I can't wait! (Only joking - I'm looking forward to it, honest!) There's a poor dead badger at the side of the road between my place and the village :(

I'm at my most lyrical when I've had a meat and potato pie.

I also think that, yes, sometimes when writing a poem, particularly a serious one (or at least one the poet considers serious), you (or 'one' if one is a soft southern jessie!) can be in a sort of trance.

And the gorilla in the room in the whole of this thread ... most performance poets are TOTALLY PISSING BONKERS!

I never learn. I never learn! Very funny, you lot. I give it to you. My family and close friends just throw up their hands and roll their eyes. But, really, there is a close relationship, so I claim Freudian slip.

Picking up on Winston's comment about the altered state during endurance events...when I swam from Europe to Asia (God, I love saying that) I don't recollect a single poetic phrase coming to mind during the whole terrifying palava...nary a one. Which was a bit ironic really, seeing as it was the 200th anniversary of Byron doing it and he managed to knock one out (so to speak) shortly afterwards.

Howsabout (in Win's honour) a Haiku?

Rancid waters churn
Tides pulling, freezing waves burn
Fucking Bosphorus

:-)

Jx

I think Win obviously had an easier time of it on that bike;) Perhaps it has something to do with the connection of brain to arms and legs - much harder to think seriously when you are using your arms - legs just do it on their own...
Water is also more resistant than air ...unless you are swimming downstream in a strong current and then you have other thing on your mind. The most enduring thing I do is clog dancing - definitely a better work out than the gym - I couldn't begin to think about poetry while I'm dancing either.
Nice to see you back with us Cynthia - any more gems to offer us? :))

OK - just for Win

My bike is my steed
I conquer the hills and downs
Flattening pheasants

(OK I know he didn't flatten 'em!)

Thank you Ann. Apparently in Equador they flatten guinea pigs! It's their national dish (So I am told)

Isobel. Cycling for 12 hours is never easy but I do think that maybe you are onto something with the legs working on their own lol! If the cyclist thought too much about how many times his/her legs go round they would never start the thing.

Win x

Raleigh road kill rots
He is no pheasant plucker
It's a no Win game

(I am very impressed Win. I think more men should take to the roads in cycling shorts. I always enjoy watching their legs go round when I'm out and about. x)