There is an alternative to wading through the growing mass of postings, which incidentally will continue to increase, and that is creating separate like minded groups.

Paul Blackburn has devised a superb working alternative which has been taken up with all the enthusiasm of wet weekend in a Whitley Bay caravan site. I for one can not understand why the countless number of moans and groans I hear, apart from mine of course, related to the increase in daily postings and the irritation of multi posting cannot now be eased by this initiative.

I therefore invite like minded poets to join my gang thereby enabling the system to be easier to use, i.e. with best will in the world I am not conversely I read enthusiastically posted submissions from certain other poets which I prefer.

This system enables the system to be less of a marathon and helps return us to the halcyon days of reading and discussing poetry with those that are likeminded.
That is not to say for one moment that I want to encourage platitudes and meaningless backslapping, not at all, meaningful critique would be a preferred objective.

Please think about this way forward, should you not wish to join Gus Jonsson's Group so be it, start your own and help make the system less wieldy.

I welcome your thoughts on this matter.

TAG: Gus Jonsson Group
Many thanks.

Gus

You are starting to sound a bit like Gary Glitter, Gus... I am not sure how your gang works though. Do you get to choose who goes in your gang? What if someone joined whose poetry you hated? What if you choose people to be in your gang whose poetry I hate? That is the minefield we face whenever we start to have groups within groups. There is also the danger that we close our minds to strangers and to poetry that really should be heard....If you wish all my poetry to be tagged so that you can see it easily though, I am quite happy to oblige.
I do love Paul's suggestion of tagging WOLOP nominations. The man is a genius and I am very grateful to him.

You are right of course Izo,

Gary Glitter .mmmm.... Whatya’ like in bunches and a gym skirt.... ooooh

Anyway, I digress, back to my gang.

The problem solved causes yet another series of problems I am well aware, however it at least enables likeminded poets a diversionary route. If the whole thing became a parallel blog then it can be terminated.

Yes, I agree with you on the WOLOP idea and that Paul, the old silver fox, is beautifully formed and has genius foozling from ever orifice.

I'm just happy that something is at least being attempted to make the site less wieldy.
In the event that no one wants to join my gang then I will probably spend my twilight years in the Far East until I'm arrested for cloning Paul Blackburn

Many Thanks
Gusxx
PS As Gang Leader I am letting Girls in...but not out

D'ya mean to say you've never seen me in a gym slip and bunches? Well I'm working my way down to that look, Gus - haven't you noticed that I get younger every month? I would love to join your gang if you'll let me in...It won't stop me looking at the general blogs and poetry that you aren't keen on - it would just make it that much easier for you to comment on mine! Will remember to tag it next time I post one. I do take your point that blogs are growing and growing. I've reached a point where I've had to take a break - I don't seem to write much of my own any more...And yes - any improvements to the site by the silver haired genius are much appreciated.

How does it work Gus if I have always been the leader? : P

I do not like multi - bloggers, how do i join Gus, or am i allowed?

I love playing 'Tag', please may I join too Gus.?

This is a conundrum. Surely most of us consider ourselves to be 'serious-minded poets' and would want to be part of Gus' Gang by its very definition. So I ask myself: whose work exactly would I expect to find under that tag? Since 'my' answer may not be 'your' answer, I see a very serious problem with the concept.

I'm having problems with the Tagging business generally. Pigeon-holing anything, let alone POETRY, is a tricky business.

count me out

This idea makes new-to-the-site poets like me feel a bit unwanted. The fact that there are so many poets on the site is a mark of it's success, surely. I know that since I joined I've blogged a lot, maybe too much, but I have no other outlet. I don't perform (might one day, tho there's not much going on where I live), I'm not published, and when I found WOL I felt very welcome. Everyone has been great and supportive. But the very word gang sounds like clique to me. I love wading through all the bloggs, and have found this a wonderful way to discover poets that I like. We all have our preferences, but I sometimes find something totally unexpected that I love. It's like life!
Now I know I'll never be asked to join your gang!

We have become aware that the success of the site is itself causing problems and is switching people off - especially the huge number of blogs.

So, we are attempting to give people tools, to use or not as you please, to help you to personalise or form groupings within the site - allowing different ways of using the site without being prescriptive in how you do so.

At the same time the basic site remains the same, i.e. even though people can set up groupings by using tags, the full blogs are still available as they always have been.

Nevertheless, we are conscious that using the site (including the use of Tags) is becoming more complex, may seem cliquish and maybe off putting to new comers and that is why Winston Plowes and team are ensuring that newcomers are not only welcomed but are explaining and guiding new comers through the site.

Surely the answer to all this is to welcome everyone but also give general rules when people join. Though not cast in stone, those rules should include a 'gentlemans' agreement that no more than x number of blogs should be posted in one month or one day. Surely everyone can see the common sense in this and the benefit to the site and the individual poet also. If people want to post in excess of that agreed number, there are other poetry sites they can do it on.
This would focus poets on posting their best polished stuff. Nothing new in what I'm saying of course, but it doesn't hurt to reiterate.

Write Out Loud has always been a site that keeps prescription to a minimum and tries to respond positively to change by working out ways of helping people to use the site in anyway they want to. We are one of those sites that allow you to post as much or little as you want to, along with allowing you to post more or less anything that's legal.

A few people have suggested that the problem with the number of blogs is down to multi-posting.

However, an analysis of the blogs (taking November as an example) shows that 84 people posted 337 blogs (at the time of writing) which means that each of them posted once every week on average.

Therefore, the problem isn't with multi posting but with the numbers of people posting and this is the problem that we are attempting to address with innovations like 'Tags' and other tools that we have in the pipeline.

Note: I'm going to delete half a dozen spurious blogs in November, so the numbers are going to decrease slightly but this will not have any significant impact on the analysis.

Can we nominate and vote on the spurious Blogs that are going to be deleted?

: )

Jx

No!

: )

Jx

Yes - I am aware that when you average it all out, nothing sounds bad Paul. Many people choose to post no more than one or two poems a month but it is the poets who post six in one day that sap your enthusiasm for looking through blogs...
Much as I like your innovations, I don't think tags are going to be an answer to the problem.

Isobel: No, when we average it out (actually the analysis is deeper than that) we see that there is a growing problem with the numbers of people posting and we are developing tools (Tags is only the first) to try to address this problem whilst still ensuring the site is open and inclusive.

You identify something that is an irritant to you but which many people don't perceive to be a problem at all. The whole point of blogs is to allow people to post when and what they want to, you can easily ignore anyone who is posting something you don't like (that's why there's a preview window) or posting what you consider to be too many blogs. Just ignore them & scroll down!

John, you are a very bad dog, go into your corner or no supper tonight ;)

Well, Gus,

After giving your open invitation careful consideration I was reminded of the quote attributed to Groucho Marx:

"I sent the club a wire stating, "Please accept my resignation. I don't want to belong to any club that will accept people like me as a member.""

It also brought to mind Gary Glitter's "I'm The Leader Of The Gang" lyrics.

Thanks - but no thanks . . .

Regards,
A.E. :-)

so there are too many poets out there. Too bad! We're all equal. How many poets can you get on the head of a pin? Room for me?

P.S. Just had a glass of wine - may affect my judgement xx

From my experience it is lethal to post comments after a glass of wine, Ann. You go round when you've sobered up trying to delete them and limit the damage. Don't see anything wrong with your comments though. Every site needs fresh blood - it becomes pretty stale otherwise and lacks the enthusiasm new membership can bring. The only thing I appeal for is common sense when posting. We have guidelines posted on the discussion threads which tell us how we should interact with other poets when 'discussing'. I see no reason why those guidelines can't be extended to posting also. Just handy hints on how much poetry the average reader can take from one poet maybe.... Did I mention that I had just had a couple of glasses of red???

No, Anne, there aren't too many poets and we want you and everyone else to feel welcome here.

What we are trying to do is to make the site, blogs in particular, more accessible and give you different ways to view them - but only if you want to use them.

We are giving you more choice not restricting you in any way.

Gus chose to set up 'his gang' or group but that was only one view of how Tags can be used. Isobel has used Tags to highlight Wolop nominated poems. Other people have used tags to tell people what their poem is e.g. "Love" is a popular one.

So don't feel it's about gangs and being excluded - it isn't.

A victim of success to a degree.

Its annoying when you get those multiple poem posts.
I end up skipping them- not becuase they are poor, just because of the principle. It feels like a spam attack.

I recall this site when it had fewer members, it was easier to digest as you knew the poets, a closer feel.

Its good thats its become a sucess, inevitable for it to turn this way, I notice the 'old school' posted feelings which echo mine.

Must say I have a lot of poems stacking up and no way to share them anymore!

overload!

What is it that disolves when something becomes so succesfull.?
Is there a parellel with a music group? Band? i.e going on to be a stadium band etc.?
feels that way.

philisophical responses welcome.

(ahhh my autospell check is faulty (firefox problem) uh oh have I spelt the big words correct?

I agree completely Peter...
No surprise there ; )

As they say:
Plus ça change... Plus c'est la même chose

People come and go... some are still here... some take a break... and some are just hiding ; )

I see no reason why your poems have to stack up Pete. No one is averse to people posting one a day even - just not 6 to 8... Spacing poems out just gives people chance to digest them and as you say, to not feel blitzed or spammed. It is plain common sense really.

I've been watching this discussion for a couple of weeks now and see that it seems to have taken a turn towards "the failure of success" theme.
Multiple posting puts me off as well as the poet obviously hasn't just rattled off a half-dozen pieces of work, merely wanting to place a selection of his/her stuff on here quickly.
Surely it is better to assign a personal blog to one's personal profile where those interested can go to read other work by the poets that they take a shine too. I have poemsforrosie on blogger and use it as a repository.
If multiple blogging (on WOL) continues it will put people off reading/commenting, surely. As to gangs, I've never been a tribal sort.

Taking up much of what has been said, particularly Pete Crompton's problem of having a lot of poems, and not wishing to multi-blog, could the answer be something I suggested a few months back, and that would be to produce an (or several) anthologies.

This would enable anyone wishing to take part, to get their poems out to a wider audience, without overfacing WOL readers.

I am in the process of putting together a 'vanity' book of my own, similar to one I did last year. It's paperback, but vey high quality paper, and perfect bound. I have just had a quote for 50 copies, each with just under 100 pages. The cost is less than £4 each. Perhaps if more were orderd, the unit cost would reduce slightly

Consider then, that if 5 people (of like mind) got together (20 pages each), the cost to each person would be approx. £40 for the 10 copies.

I know that money is tight, but they could be sold or given away as presents to those you like (or perhaps those you don't).

Just a thought

Is this a blatant advertisement for your book Steve! ;-)

Curses, foiled again Moriarty.
The book will hit the shelves for a very reasonable price of £0.00.

I give it to relatives and friends, whether they like it or not. It's thin enough to stuff under a wobbly buffet leg.

Seriously though folks - it wouldn't be a bad way to get out what you think of as your better stuff. £40 (even if you don't sell, but give them away) and you've reached 50 lovers of poetry.

Miss Foxglove, I shall talk to you in my study!

This all seems to be getting rather tragic. Maybe we should all commit mass suicide? I have never seen anything on the Home Page or anywhere else saying that Write Out Loud was only for people living up north, or was that sarcasm? Im obviously out of my depth and my region, so maybe won't do any more discussing. bye bye xx

Can we nominate and vote on the spurious Blogs that are going to be deleted?

: )

Jx
23 hours agoPosted by: John Aikman

yes john oh paul please , please , we could make it competition , and the one with the most deletions wins , i could call it delblogmon or bollocks for short :)

I don't live in the north but rather in the grittier part of Surrey and am obviously missing out on the round of great live evenings up in the north-west. Yet as a relative newcomer I still value this site because it keeps me thinking about poetry every day. For me, the discussions are great entertainment value, as long as you don't take them too seriously. I can't believe that southerners are excluded from this site ... that would be racist

Lots of people enjoy this site who don't live anywhere near the North West. Many aren't remotely interested in performing their poetry. I guess the site is many things to many people and will never please all because of that.
Glad to hear that the site has encouraged you to get out there and perform Steve. If enough people from one area could get together, maybe you could set up your own WOL venues and the site wouldn't be quite so grounded in the North West. I think the site leaders are trying to spread the performance aspect further afield. Many of the POM winners certainly seem to come from the London scene.

Let me preface my remarks by saying that Write Out Loud welcomes everyone from anywhere to join its ranks.

That being said, we are highly conscious, as Steve has said, that the site was born out of supporting WOL events in the North West.

We are also conscious of the dichotomy of attempting to become a national website whilst running several regular events in the Northwest. This NW centric view is, perhaps, further highlighted by the large number of poetry events in the NW which is second only to London in the UK as far as we can see and which we simply cannot ignore.

However, we are also aware that more people are joining and becoming active on the site from more places across the UK and we have responded to this by taking actions to try to make the site more national (international even).

Our web team now has members based outside of the NW for instance and we are actively seeking people from geographically diverse regions to assist us in running the site and we will support anyone, as much as we possibly can, who wants to set up a poetry event anywhere in the UK.

We have appointed News and Gig Guide Editors whose remit is to work on a national basis and we believe this is already having results, over the last few months literally hundreds of new events from around the country have been put onto the gig guide – more than any before.

Similarly, although the soon to be launched ‘Features’ magazine section of the site is going to be run from Manchester, the editorial team are proactively seeking contributions from a wide geographical background and will be encouraging anyone to pitch their ideas for articles to the editor – more about this in the next week or so.

We are also conscious that the web site may seem daunting to some new comers, particularly those who haven’t performed anywhere, and have put a team in place to make them feel welcome and to provide assistance, should it be needed, in using the facilities here.

But there is still more to be done and, to address one of Steve’s interesting and apposite insights, whilst a website cannot ‘properly nurture one’s writing’ in a way a ‘local poetry group’ can, maybe we can facilitate virtual writing groups or classes. It’s something we have thought about in principle but not worked out in any detail. Would developing something like that interest you Steve, or anyone else?

As to ‘blogging’, maybe I was wrong to air my concerns online. However, the WOL management team does have to plan for further growth of the site and work out how to handle thousands of blogs rather than just the couple of hundred we do at the moment and I thought sharing that might be helpful – obviously not.

As to ‘tagging’, this is by no means a new facility it’s used all over the web. Our tech team decided to use tags in an innovative way to build our new ‘Features’ section but then, almost as an afterthought, we made it available to the general community as we felt it might be useful and it still may.

And as Greg rightly says, “…don’t take the discussions too seriously” - apparently some people regard WOL discussions as great soap opera especially when the participants forget to have a sense of humour.

Finally Steve, I’m sorry you decided to take your profile off the Showcase, remember you can always put it back and, whether you do or not, we’d really like you help us to meet the challenges you have raised, if your are so minded
Email me paul@writeoutloud.net if you are.