Sorry to hear about your experiences Chris...

What strikes me is the odd nature of gigs you seem to have been to of late. I've been rehearsing for performance in the theatre this week and I managed to find someone to emcee The River View.....which despite weather and my own inability to be there has still gone ahead (thanks to several guest emcees..) for two months on the run. To my mind it seems very odd to cancel....but c'est la vie.

I wish you better in other venues and would hope that there are some more friendly and accessible events in Liverpool you may discover one day. Don't be too eager to tar all of the city with the same brush....

I understand Chris' frustration at Come STrut Your Stuff at the Egg cafe in Liverpool last night. Myself and Ieuan also got there too late to be puty on the set list.

It's a crowded night at the Egg during college term times, and while the people who run the night are "good eggs", there is always a problem with set lists - if there's a big turn-out some people don't get to perform.

That's why, with the Bards, I've always refused to operate a set list. They aren't strictly necessary ... and at a mixed mode (poets and musicians) night such as the Egg offers, poets inevitably lose out because the musos dominate the evenings, and use up more than their fair share of the performance time.

Don't want to put you off going to Hebden Chris but they are currently forecasting heavy snow for tmrw evening in East Lancs/West Yorks. We might get stuck in the pub all night!

Don't know what you've got against DGPS Chris but it was as eclectic, welcoming and informal, as ever last night. I hadn't been for months but I'm glad I went. It was, after all, what inspired WoL in the early days, and I'm sure it will still be there after lots of other venues have sunk.

I was at that 'Come STrut Your Stuff' night (I think I was the second to last person and that was 7.10pm or something).. Yeah, it is a little worrying when venues do things like that... It would put me off even again performing there, I must admit.

Thankfully there is always lots off other events going on. Hopefully you won't hit that problem again.. Liverpool is a bit far for me to go without driving (I don't), but Liverpoetry was a refreshing change the month before (Hope to get down there in April).

Well ... the BARDS of New Brighton has NEVER cancelled a performance night and it never will as long as I'm running it. We celebrate three unbroken years of monthly open-mics on Monday 8 March.

And, as Andy mentioned, there is also our sister club LIVERpoetry! - monthly at the Pilgrim pub, Pilgrim Street, Liverpool city centre L1 9HB.(Next one is this Wednesday, 10 March, starting 8pm.

Here (below) is a news story I sent to this website's email address for news submissions last week. So far it hasn't appeared in the news section, so as the material is time-sensitive, I post it here....

THE BARDS, New Brighton’s performance poetry group, will celebrate three years of existence on Monday (March 8) by announcing a summer competition at its montthly open floor night at the Magazine pub, Magazine Brow, New Brighton.

The group has grown steadily since being launched by Steve Regan back in March 2007. It has met every month since then – first at the “Ginny” pub, and currently in a larger room at the Magazine pub by the Mersey foreshore.

Poets perform / read at a specially made, gilded Bards lectern (pictured).

MC Steve said: “Our aim is always to be genuinely friendly, down-to-earth, and welcoming of all sorts of poetry and poets.

“It’s been great to see people come to the Bards as beginners and then keep coming back to develop in confidence and eloquence through performance poetry.

“We run an open set list, so no-one ever leaves a Bards session disappointed. No-one is ever told they can’t perform because the set list is closed, and we NEVER cancel our open floor nights. These days we attract big crowds of up to 40 poets per session.”

If you want to see for yourself what the Bards is like come along on Monday (8 March) to the Magazine pub (CH45 1HP). The open floor starts at 8pm. Admission is free.

I turned up to that Bards of New Brighton event this evening and I was the only one there and it was only when I asked the bar staff that I found out that it was cancelled weeks ago but they hadn't bothered to tell anyone.

I had driven all the way out to New Brighton, and I live in the civilised part of the north west so it took years to get there and I had to battle against barbaric tribes and passport control and ellesmere port along the way.

Please, if you're going to host a poetry event in New Brighton and if it's not going to be on on a particular night and you know about it weeks in advance, please let people know. It took me two hours driving there and back and for nothing.

I don't want to harp on about it, therefore this last bit is irrelevant and redundant, but I think if you are hosting a poetry night in New Brighton then you should definitely let people know if you've had to cancel for some reason.

I have had it up to here with poetry nights in New Brighton that get cancelled (is anyone still reading this or am I talking to myself at this point) and I'm afraid I am going to have to seriously consider not going to any more poetry events in New Brighton. This one wasn't on when I got there and no one had told me. Oh alright, so I made all that up. Whatever. Get used to it.

Tu me fais rire DG... mais je savais que tu plaisantais ; )

Snide, small-minded smears and sneers.

Predictable and witless.

Duck's back, water.

The Bards ... an INDEPENDENT poetry group that has NEVER cancelled a meeting.

Well, Francine got it at least.

It made ME laugh.

Steve, Dermot's post: c'est une blague. Tongue in cheek. He daren't go near New Brighton since the asbo.

dermot's made me laugh too on second reading.. 1st reading was eh? lol

OK, I'll permit myself a wry smile ...

Ah, but it's mockery... only funny if Chris Co doesn't mind being joshed.

DGPS takes on board Chris's comments about accessibility and stairs. It is something we have considered and will be addressing. It seems to be an issue across the board for Liverpool venues: The Egg, The Pilgrim etc.

However, DGPS does NOT operate a 'closed set list' and never has. Occasionally, if poets are travelling from North Wales or the furthest reaches of the globe (Bolton) we will book in a reading slot for them, otherwise it's first-come-first-serve.

Fortunately/unfortunately - depending on your point of view - our Open Floor events are extremely popular. (As are the events at The Egg.) The last three events have had audiences of 90+ people. We squeeze in extra poets where we can, but a set list of 27 poets is as much as we can really manage before we are turfed out of the venue.

Most poets accept that they will not get the opportunity to read at every event they attend - but then they are happy to to listen and to support other poets. Regulars/old-timers who have attended virtually every single event over the past 21 years understand that even they are not guaranteed a reading space. And they accept this without complaint.

The events that can guarantee reading slots will be more intimate and bijou with fewer people attending and less competition to read.

Ultimately your choice is to either be cross/disappointed that you didn't get a chance to perform or use it as an opportunity to listen and enjoy the poetry - and be delighted that so many people want to be involved in a creative art form that you find so rewarding.

I am disappointed to read that you felt 'frozen out' because we have a policy of chatting to new members and ensuring they feel welcome. I remember talking to you, Chris, on your first visit to DGPS and giving you a list of other places where you would be able to perform.

P.S. We cancelled one meeting in January 2010 because of horrendous weather condition when it was advised that only essential journeys should be made. (We can argue another time about the essential nature of poetry!) Public transport wasn't operating, the roads were lethally icy and it was dangerous to walk. We sent out email and Facebook notifications, and announcements were made on local radio. We thought we were making a responsible and sensible decision - though perhaps you disagree with this?

I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean by 'closed set list' then, Chris.

Clearly, with a very popular night, it is impossible to say that ALL poets will get chance to perform whenever they turn up. We have to eventually close the list because, erm, the venue has to eventually close ...

We don't 'freeze out' poets (I'm not sure what that means either) and we don't operate a 'clique' either - which is why, on average, between 6-8 brand new poets perform as first timers at each DGPS Open Floor.

In regard to your edits to your post, Chris, the subject heading chosen for this thread (Don't bother coming to Liverpool), and the comments made about DGPS were why I chose to respond.

I am somewhat disappointed by the 'them and us' tone which has reared its not very pleasant head over the past few months in press releases, comment and disingenuous (opportunistic?) marketing. This post (Liverpool events are bobbins) is symptomatic of this malaise.

It is really necessary to criticise other poetic events in order to boost the profile of ones own events?

But that's a slight tangent, Chris. As for parking in Liverpool, I agree totally. Even more double yellow lines have appeared around Hope Street and Mount Pleasant. I would walk in or use public transport but unfortunately have to lug our enormous and antiquated PA system back and forth to the venue and the lack of parking is vexing.

'Frozen out' is quite a loaded expression though, wouldn't you say?

You say you arrived late and the set list was full. That was a disappointment, but not sure it warrants being called 'frozen out'.

Other events don't do this because they haven't got 27 poets on the reading list - which is the advantage of the more intimate gatherings which attract smaller audiences.

I'm not ignoring the positive comments you have made about DGPS - which I thank you for - but am addressing the "don't bother going to Liverpool" aspect which is worrying.

Your post raises an interesting issue though: do poets have a right to expect to perform? Is it just about the performing or is it also about the listening?

My pet hate is poets who bugger off after they've performed as if all they've been doing is waiting for their moment at the mic. (Note, I am not referring to people who have to leave for trains, buses etc!)

Chris,

It is difficult to respond to your posts when you keep editing and adding to them.

If other events have 27 poets wanting to perform and can keep an endless reading list, well more power to their elbow! How do they organise it? Are poets allowed to perform only one poem? Does the venue stay open until the early hours of the morning? Have they cracked the mystery of the space-time continuum?

As for the Egg, I know the organiser would be very disappointed to read the comments you've made. Clearly they result from a subjective and disappointing experience and it is your right to express them. Perhaps you could bear in mind that such events are run on a purely voluntary basis, with a lot of time and effort put into organising an event which is clearly popular and well-attended - so it shouldn't be 'written off' despite your experience?

This is not to say that any event should rest on their laurels. We all strive to improve the experience for our supporters. Constructive criticism is welcome. Constructive not destructive ...

Bloody hell! Let's have less of the bitchy, mega-defensive, bit-by-bit indignant rebuttal and then disappear-up-your-own-arses style of comment. That's all so middle class and BORING.

Liverpool's a big city and it could do with a few more lively, non-pretentious poetry nights that are open-to-all and MC'd with genuine warmth.

Closed set lists, and slots that are too long for open mics, most definitely do piss off poets. That's why the BARDS of New Brighton - one of the best attended nights in the North-West - won't have them. We will never charge for admission either. We have NEVER cancelled an open mic night and the warmth of our welcome is palpable.

The BARDS open mic is on this Monday, April 12, at the Magazine Pub, Magazine Brow, New Brighton CH45 1HP, 8pm start, for those who fancy coming along to see what all the fuss is about.

Also, the fabulous LIVERpoetry! is on at the Pilgrim pub, Pilgrim Street, Liverpool L1 9HB, on Wednesday 14 April, starting 8pm.

Two great nights! And stay tuned for news soon of the launch of our new Liverpool night - LIVERpoetry Xtra!

Gosh.

'Mockery', 'rabid', 'hounding', 'censorship', 'P.C.', 'remorseless'...

I've just read over my posts. I don't recognise those descriptions. Nor did I ask you to apologise.

In fact, I agreed with some of your points - inaccessible buildings and poor parking - and disagreed with other of your points.

Ho hum.

Hi Chris,

Thank you for your comments about poetry in Liverpool. You raise some very interesting points which, as the person responsible for running Come Strut Your Stuff at the Egg Cafe for the past 10 years, I would like to respond to. Forgive me if I make any mistakes, but as has been pointed out already it's not easy to follow your posts, or to work out which events each of your points refer to.

CSYS runs on the first Monday of every month and has done for as long as I've been involved. Over the last 10 years it has never been cancelled. When the first Monday of the month coincides with a bank holiday we move it to the second Monday. This is stated clearly on our website at http://www.comestrutyourstuff.co.uk where the dates are listed six months in advance. We also have dates three months in advance on our fliers and posters, and we've been mentioning the change at every event since January. I realise that the Write Out Loud website has it listed as a recurring event on the first Monday, but if anyone clicks on the entry to view the full details they would see that it quite clearly states about the date moving when it clashes with a bank holiday. I take on board your comment though and will endeavour to remember to email this website to get the date changed for next May.

I'm sorry you had difficulty parking for an event. I drive to CSYS every month and always find somewhere to park either on Newington or Bold Street. On-street parking is free in Liverpool after 6pm so there shouldn't be any need to pay to park, however parking for other venues can be tricky, particularly for people with mobility problems. Unfortunately that will always be an inevitable problem for events held in the city centre. When I ran an event at Borders in Speke parking wasn't a parking problem!

I'm sorry you had problems with stairs. There's nothing really that can be done about that for my event, I'm afraid. We could hold CSYS in a different venue but it wouldn't be the same without the Egg's unique atmosphere. If anyone clicks to view the details about the event on the Write Out Loud website they will see that we clearly state the venue isn't wheelchair accessible because of steep stairs. The DGPS are also aware of the problem and I know it's something that Sarah and the organisers will no doubt bear in mind when the have to relocate when the Everyman closes for the rebuilding work. It's worth others bearing in mind, however, that finding a decent, free poetry venue in Liverpool city centre is not easy.

As for your comments about door opening times, I can only assume you're writing about a different event. Come Strut Your Stuff takes place in The Egg Cafe which is open all day, so we don't have a door opening time.

I'm also not sure what you mean by a 'closed set list'. The set list for CSYS is open from the time Tony Kehoe arrives (normally 7pm). We have three sets of six performers, giving space for a minimum of 18 performers (musicians and poets) on the night. We guarantee that a certain number of those spaces will be filled by poets in order to prevent the evening being dominated by music. Once the three sets are full we start a reserve list. If we reach the end before 10.30pm then we start working our way down the reserve list until we reach 10.30pm - the time we've agreed with the cafe to finish by.

We operate a strict 'first come-first served' basis which means that anyone who turns up in time to be added on the set list gets the chance to perform. We don't want it to become a closed shop with only the regulars or the friends of the organiser getting a look in. I've been to too many poetry and music events where that happens.

I think my response above covers all the points you raised and I hope it's helped to clarify the situation, at least as far as my event is concerned.

Now that I've got that out of the way I'd like to say a couple more things...

Firstly, I take exception to the tone of your post. Constructive feedback I like. Rants and raves I don't like. OK, so you've got problems with the way poetry in the city is organised. Fine. We're all entitled to our opinion. However, if you feel that strongly about it then either (a) go somewhere else and stop whinging about it, or (b) organise your own event, in your own venue, in your own time, and in your own way. Then you'll be guaranteed to have the perfect poetry event every time. Those of use who do organise events in Liverpool, such as the long-running DGPS and the new LIVERpoetry will tell you just how much work is involved, if you're interested in listening.

Secondly, your comment "Liverpool the city that culture forgot" is, in my view, a load of rubbish. It's a sad state of affairs when someone feels they have to make a ludicrous comment like this just because they've had a couple of bad experiences. Liverpool is absolutely jam packed with culture!
Art - there's so much that it has it's own website artinliverpool.com - do you know how many independent galleries there are in the city?
Music - a thriving scene with lots of exciting and talented musicians playing from Liverpool and across the country. Liverpool is also the only UK city to have a website dedicated to its acoustic music scene.
And there's more... performance, poetry, creative writing, local history, design, sport, religion, and festivals of all shapes and sizes. And you say there's no culture!

---------

p.s. I've just emailed Write Out Loud and asked them to correct the dates for CSYS for April and May.

Please. Everybody, can't we just stop, let the fat lady sing and draw the curtain?

Allow me *slipping on an inflatable sumo suit and a Kath Kidson floral family tent personalised with stick-on diamonds (120 for a £1 from poundland) and several papooses in which selected 'handbag dogs' are slotted, their faces staring sweetly out -- each dog's yelps naturally tuned to one note each of the pentatonic scale, then fixing a Lady Gaga wig-hat on my head using wallpaper paste and, finally, taking a deep breath and remembering all I've learned from my 10 year zen-like training in a submersible when I swam as part of a whale pod and learned their entire technique and repertoire despite being harpooned by a Japanese whaling boat and stripped of blubber until Greenpeace intervened* whhhhhoooooooaaaa oooooofffaaa mmweeeeeee arghhhhfa kweeeee sooooooooooo hooooooosa zweee eeeeeugh eeeeugh yaaaamweeeesssss alllllloooooooooooosssss

Encore!! Encore!! More!! More!!

Encore it is, then. *slips into a new costume -- a 1:8 scale model of the Liverpool Tate and The Albert Docks, topped by a giant jellyfish with John Lennon's face and a Liver Bird with Ricky Tomlinson's face, and my face face-painted to resemble a ferry 'cross the Mersey, necklace signifying a parking bay reserved for poets only, and a tube on my chin as worn by Pharaohs but cut into steps, holding a level seesaw in my left hand, signifying balance, and a tuba stuffed with mushy peas in my right hand signifying the end of discord* fuhhhhwwwwweeeeeeeeeeagh ughhhhlesssmmmmmmm bmmmmmmuuuuuuuusffff uwl uwl

CHORUS: awwoooooooohhhfwa mmmmwaffaaa uuuuuu

Then I lay The Egg of Accord (it has eyebrows) and a beaked Bjork climbs out of it shouting, 'Human behaviour. You'll need more than a compass to work that one out!' Then a tree swims from New Brighton and declares, 'This is truly the Isle of Avalon!'

Long may you reign oh Queen of Dottiness. xx

*Curtsey, curtsey*
I meant 'euphonium' before but I, inexplicably, put 'tuba.' More mellow sound emanates from the euphonium.

I always make a pharaoh's beard watnot from the inner tube of a toilet roll. If you squinch the top of the tube against your chin it will stay put for a good while. There's a slight 'Bruce Forsyth' effect to one's profile but it looks quite impressive.

But have you ever tried playing the eupha or indeed the tubonium? I believe their sound is said to be truly mellifluous and indeed harmonious - or is that the harmonica being harmonicus? Tuba or not tuba, that is the question! (I think we should be told!)

There was an artist -- recently -- who steamrollered all the instruments comprising a full brass band.What fun/how sad! I have tried creating a moulting piano. Have you?

Personally, I want to play the euphormless. The disharmonica puffs air back at you so your teeth kazoo.

It was Cornelia Parker wot dun it. And she exploded a garden shed. I really like her stuff actually. Seen both. And something else recently that she did - what the devil WAS it! And a fab thing at the RA where Anish Kapor had this massive thing like a cross between a locomotive and a huge red lipstick. I love stuff like that. Maybe we could start a website called Art Out Loud. Or Squidge!! I expect we'll be banned from here cos we're not talking about poems. ;-) xx

For once this off topic lunacy is far more entertaining than the topic in question... bravo ! (a moulting piano would set off my allergies) Win. X

I believe that you'll find your pharoah's beard practice is highly illegal Hatta. I know that in schools nowadays you can't make anything out of toilet roll tubes because all the germs will definately kill all the children stone dead immediately. Even a whiff of a used loo roll can bring on anaphylactic shock I believe. And if you store your peanut butter sandwiches in your used toilet roll to keep them fresh - well, I think you know the rest! xxxx

And as for empty tampax boxes - don't even go there...

Now what the hell does that have to do with empty tampax boxes?

Well I am glad to hear your leg is at least feeling better Chris.

It is always frustrating when venues operate a closed list. I had the same frustration at Preston Wordsoup. It is such a let down if you have travelled far and are looking forward to performing.

At least one and all have been able to get it off their crump bag. It's probably time to put it all to bed now - I doubt there will ever be a meeting of minds - just an agreememt to differ, maybe.

Glad to hear you enjoyed Hebden Chris. Last time I went there I nearly froze to death - a lovely place though - such a shame it is so far away.

Isobel x

No, Chris, I wasn't 'angry' and I didn't 'skip read' your messages.

Neither have I been remorseless, rabid, hounding or P.C. - all descriptions you've ascribed to me.

Nor have I asked you for an apology.

Still, anyone who is interested can read the thread and come to their own conclusions ...

Hi Chris,

Thanks for taking the time and effort to respond to my comment.

I have re-written the Write Out Loud entry for Come Strut Your Stuff and have asked the webmaster to update it. I can see how your problem over the opening times has happened but I can honestly say that I don't know where the "Doors 7.30pm" came from. I don't remember adding that phrase, and I can't understand why I would ever add that. However, I recognise it is a mistake (possibly mine) and can only apologise that this unintentional error caused you to arrive at the wrong time. If you contact me directly on info@comestrutyourstuff.co.uk I will arrange for your parking and petrol costs to be reimbursed from my own pocket.

I take on board your comments about accessibility, but we won't be changing venues. I understand the stairs make it either difficult or impossible for some people to attend, and am sorry for those who are excluded because of that. However, the two people who used to run the event with me, Pat Fearon and Beryl Phillips, both stopped coming to the event because they couldn't get up the stairs, but they both wanted it to continue. This just shows that the issues are not always black and white.

I'm firmly in the "if you want something doing, do it yourself" camp. For example, I looked at the local acoustic music scene and there wasn't already an event which did what I was looking for in an event. So I organised my own. Some years back I started a poetry night in South Liverpool because there wasn't one there already. Therefore I stand by my assertion that if any or all of the current poetry provision isn't to your liking, for whatever reason, then you should seriously consider starting your own. If it becomes a success then you'll be congratulated. I'll certainly plug it on the CSYS website. The Egg Cafe isn't in the same bracket as theatres, airlines, museums, or buses which have a duty (and the finances) to make their facilities accessible to all. Other premises only have a duty to make themselves accessible where feasible. Would you really have every single business in premises without a lift closed down or moved?

The debate about the set list is one we've had on and off for many years. Unlike the majority of poetry evenings, CSYS combines poetry and music. Poets get five minutes, musicians get two songs. We could change the format to give musicians only one song in order to fit in more performers, and it's something we'll consider when the team next sits down together. We already have protected slots for poets to make sure the evening doesn't become top heavy with musicians, but to a certain extent we've governed by who comes in through the door.

I have no problem with people speaking their minds. That's what this forum is for. And maybe you got more of a response because of the tone of your original post. However, if you'd felt that strongly about certain events letting you down then why didn't you contact the organisers direct? Had you pointed out the error in the WOL listing for CSYS earlier we could have had it corrected earlier. As it is, I only found out about it because someone else in the forum told me about your post.

I too am willing to sit down and share a tea (I don't drink coffee), accept that strong words were said, and move on.

Enough now please, Chris.

You have consistently misrepresented how I have responded to your posts. I was not angry, hectoring, nor rabid and neither am I now being 'passive-aggressive.' I agreed with some of your points, I disagreed with others, including:

"Liverpool the city that culture forgot."

"Bar that one event in Liverpool- all the other events I have been to in Liverpool have been awful/abject shite."

"I've had it upto the gills with piss poor Liverpool organisers"

"In fact as of right now I think if I heard poetry from another scouse accent I might just vomit..."

And, yes, I did say thank you for the nice things you said about DGPS - read my replies properly - it was the general misrepresentation of Liverpool I disagreed with.

You keep offering to settle this over a coffee and be 'human' but are replying in increasingly aggressive and antagonistic language.

I could perhaps understand your original reaction as being down to being disappointed at not reading and no doubt being in pain from your leg - and, no, before you start again, I am not patronising you.

However, I am at a complete loss to understand your subsequent responses.

And, yes, you are welcome to the 'last word' as I shan't be logging on to read any more replies.

Far better to put the energy you have put into such lengthy responses into another slam-winning poem, wouldn't you say? (And that is meant genuinely as well.)

All the best for your future writing and performing.

S.

I was advised to join WOL as, it was put to me, I would enjoy the interaction with good poets and like minded people. I must say that I am pretty bemused by this thread that seems to be turning into a childish argument over, what I can make out, was an honest unpatronising personal experience in respect of a couple of poetry events in the city by Chris Co (even if poetic flair was used in the writing). I must say, as an organisor of a poetry event in the Wirral, I know it is difficult to get things right for everybody. No matter how much you try, it is not possible to please all of the people all of the time. Saying that, if a not so possitive reaction to the event was highlighted, I would hope that I would take it as a learning experience and endeavour to correct it for the next event or, explain to the person who wasn't happy, why things were the way they were, in a possitive way. I hope I wouldnt take it as a personnal slight towards myself or the event. A possitive element in respect to sites such as this one, is that people have the ability to put forward their views, or rather, should have the ability to put forward their views without it decending into a tit for tat argument which could come across as sub-concious censorship. All venues throughout Merseyside are well attended by wonderful poets, surely we cannot, as organisors, be overtly sensitive to negative comments? I would be happy to see this thread come to an end now, it does seem to be distracting from the rest of the site.

'If we mortals have offended
Think on this and all is mended...'

Expelliarmus!
Expecto patronum!
Amicus Totalis Despitus Differens!

Human warmth, spiritual depth, emotional power -what the best poets and the best poetry nights are all about! Which brings me to ... THE BARDS tonight (Monday 12 April), Magazine pub in the fabulous, feelgood resort of New Brighton (CH45 1HP).

*** Bitching from the sidelines, sneering, pretentious posing, lack of human warmth, politically correct ranting, emotional shallowness, and a total absence of spirituality - you can also find those characteristics on the contemporary poetry scene.

But NOT at the Bards of New Brighton, and not at LIVERpoetry! in the Pilgrim pub, central Liverpool, L1 9HB, either. Next LIVERpoetry! meeting, Wednesay 14 April, 8pm start.

LIVERpoetry! They're all talking about it.

You sound proper snug, oh Poet with the same nomenclature as one of King Lear's daughters.
I was round B&Q this morning and they were talking about plasticised mortar.

Like I say, pretentious posing.

Oh you cheeky scoundrel. But I do like you.

I'll drive from Wigan to The Bards tonight if any Wigginers fancy a lift?

Would now be a good time to talk about gonorrhoea - it has a good nomenclature about it...

That thought process has nothing to do with your offer of a lift Darren - our postings crossed! LOL

Isobel - I DO hope our messages crossed!

And I like you, Hatta. sorry, I misread "snug" as "smug"!! On some days, I find the two conditions are interchangable.

Let's meet for cappuccini (hell, I can't be bothered to spell check that word) in the Forza Passionalle Chris Co / Sarah MacLetitgo!
Memorial Coffee Bar.

Ciao! (can't be bothered to spell check that either).

Someone pick me up off the floor - uncontrollable fits of laughter in this suburb of Wigan....

Yes, let's! xx

ie, let's pick Isobel up off the floor, meet at the cafe and cram into Darren's car and go to Wigan.

I'd have have loved to have gone tonight Hatta but unfortunately am committed to something at Wigan words festival in Leigh. Besides a trip through the Wallasy tunnel seems to be more perilous than I'd ever anticipated or imagined...
You should join us to go to a venue soon Hatta - we could all have such a laugh!

Yes! We could stuff Tea-cups down our rhyming couplets, fill the car's tyres with the smelly gas of logic and pick Isobel up using one of those 'Grab & Drop' vending machines. Disappointment is surely guaranteed. Who needs The Bards!?

Hmmmm - Hatta - as always, you've got me goin'...

Words Festival in Leigh? Did I hear you right Isobel?

Everybody needs ... The BARDS!

I used to go to Christmas parties at the David Brown tractor factory in Leigh. My dad worked there.

Even as a kid, however, I thought Leigh was (best Brian Sewell voice) "a dreadful provincial shithole". Almost as bad as Bolton!

In no way can Leigh be chosen over the glamorous Magic Realism Resort of New Brighton.

There is some Welsh story telling thingummy jiggy on at the Turnpike gallery and I have complimentary tickets. Steve - never judge a book by its cover. Wigan and its environs is the capital of culture in the North West - hadn't you heard?
I think we should all make a date for the Bards in May and drag Hatta along with us. I would hate for you all to go this month and miss out on the fun. I have 7 seats in mine so could bring even more than Darren - I'd even promise to clean it out and fumigate it! But Steve, could you guarantee me parking and a spot for all 7? You'd have to silence all those vicars and morris dancers as well - I'm up for a night of pure poetry and laughter.

Aye, Leigh IS a one-horse town...without the horse... and I love it. If anyone could ever set up a regular poetry event there - they will have my undiluted adoration and attention.

Which brings me back to Isobel - what's happening in Leigh tonight? Apart from the traffic lights changing colour?

Disregard the above - I've just read below!

And I have a bendy-bus with 75 seats - in the garage... somewhere.

Ahhh well - back t'studies.

You are most welcome to join us Darren - am going with sister Cate and whoever else would like. I believe Louise Fazakerly is also going. If it is anything like the one I went to last night, it will be very poorly attended. You have to question the sense of cramming too much culture into 2 weeks - people don't have the stamina. I did question it but got nowhere...

***scatches chins in deep thought***

Yeah, well parking ain't that difficult near the venue (Mags pub); it's all free parking in the "ladder" of streets leading down to it. Of course, we guarantee every poet who turns up a slot.

And you know the BARDS actually IS friendly - rather than just pretending to be. For a start, there are no empire-building Replicants gliding around on the edge of the live poetry, flashing smiles that don't reach the eyes.

I like it when the Wiganers come to New Brighton, as it goes, and even visits by Dermot - the reigning North-West Cynical Sneering Champ - are welcome, though I realise Dermot is not a Wiganer. Is he even human?

Whatever, even after all the insults Dermot has directed at me, I gave him one of my rollies at the March LIVERpoetry!

When I was growing up in Wigan, everyone seemed to agree that Bolton was boring, Leigh laughable, and Westhoughton a waste of space.

Preston? The sign at the borough boundary said it all - "Heck, Y'all have sex with your cousins, folks."

As for St Helens, don't even go there. NO, SERIOUSLY. DON'T GO THERE! THERE BE MONSTERS.

Oh well it's nice to know what's going on around town locally and in Wirral etc....

And after several bouts of welcome hilarity, we all jump back onto the one same carousel. Plus ca change....

I'm dying to know what "the contemporary poetry scene" in Liverpool is.

Write Out Loud encourages debate but will not tolerate personal abuse.

We have therefore removed a couple of entries from this thread and ask contributors to refrain from attacking other individuals.

May I suggest you scroll down:

http://sydneypadua.com/

and watch Yoda hiphop. Then continue exploring the page. Sydney Padua's tales of Ada Lovelace (daughter of Lord Byron) and Charles Babbage ( philosopher, mathematician and inventor of programmable computers) are joyous, inventive and clever and feature discussions about the dangerous nature of poetry.

It may well lift your spirits.

I'm dying to know what "the contemporary poetry scene" in Liverpool is.


...bunch of people who still think Roger McGough was a great poet?

...Bunch of people who still think the Beatles weren't a load of toss?

Roger McGough's popularity speaks for itself. He is an established poet with many published works to his name. No matter what people think of him, he must be liked by many people throughout the country. Poetry is personal and one mans medicine is another mans poison (a reason why I am not a great fan of slams). I must admit that my view of Roger changed on Saturday when I met him, he is a funny approachable bloke, who still has strong ties to Liverpool.

The Beatles, one of the most influential groups ever, but I know that people love em, or hate em. I cant stand any Elvis Presley or Michael Jackson songs, but I appreciate their influence on the music scene.

That said, I don't quite understand what a contemporary poetry scene is either.

"Roger McGough's popularity speaks for itself."

So does Simon Cowell's: people are stupid.

Slightly harsh I think Steven. To label people stupid because they hold a different view or have different likes to yourself. I have friends and family who have many different views to myself, I would never consider them stupid though, confused maybe, but not stupid.

Being in Nottingham the middle of the Midlands,(almost middle of the universe)and to travel afar no problem considered,was dissapointed with myself to find that there was a poets society meeting right here in my home town,and not another one in site for many an age.But I need a gentle kick up the rear quarters,I forget,so when there is a get together for like minded folk herein,where ever it is,would someone please let me know by a good verbal up the preverbial!...Thankyou

Steven - I refuse to take you too seriously - you are a wind up merchant. I do agree with half of what you say though - now and again - on a full moon or a leap year...

If anyone is going to engage you in battle, I think they should do it in Wonderland, on Hatta's excellent Cage discussion thread. Let's vote to wind this thread up!

There is an excellent events calendar on the the home page Marc - not sure if you've had time to peruse it yet. It has events as far flung as Perth, Western Australia. Hopefully you'll find something round the corner in Nottingham!

Adios everybody - I shan't be visiting this thread again. xx

Well, now that we have finally (by the looks of things returned to some sort of normality), I think it is important to reflect on what we have learned from this debacle in a Jerry's Final thought sort of a way.

I am glad that eventually the olive branch was offered, and I think it was offered first by Graham in his admission that Chris was right on the issue of disabled access. I think that was the catalyst that began the process by which all of the other barriers could be disassembled, with Sarah's acknowledgement that perhaps she may have come across to Chris as maybe a little bit passive agressive in her arguments.

I also thought that the agreement from all three that they should maybe share a cup of coffee was significant to the developing détente, because the symbolism inherent in the act of each putting their lips to the same cup implies friendship and trust.

Finally, I think it was brave of Chris to acknowledge that there were extenuating circumstances and that there was an element of perhaps he should have phoned ahead involved.

So, to summarise, it was a very difficult debate with entrenched positions on all sides, so well done to all of you for eventually seeing each other's point of view and coming to complete agreement.

sorry...I have just come-out of a coma...has something been happening...?...hay look! a squirrel...

Sardonic benediction.

Sardinian dereliction
sarsaparilla multiplication
sanguine intensification
soprano jurisdiction
and
sailors ahoy :)

Quixotic predilection.
x

Pragmatic intoxication
dogmatic application
cinematicification & objectification in stereophonic surroundsound and dolby doowahwahs xx

Unreliable connection
:(

undesirable defection!
urinerary infection
cardio myfarction
prestidigitation misdirection
bill please

Confused Cerebellum

Confounded corneas! Scatalogical scalp! Sceptical scoops! Blistering barnacles! Bravura burp!

Dear All

A good friend who has read the whole of this thread told me I wasn't very gracious about Chris's initial apology to me.

So I want to apologise for not having been gracious.

I'm very passionate about Dead Good Poets Society and what we do. We work hard to be welcoming, friendly and supportive - and our feedback suggests we get it right.

I was confused that Chris felt 'frozen out' because it is totally against our ethos.

As I've said, we don't rest on our laurels, and if we can improve any aspect of our events, we will strive to do so.

And, Chris, I do take on board the nice things you said about DGPS.

I haven't read any of the other posts since my last post - and don't intend to come back to this thread. But I am sorry for having been ungracious.

S.

Apart from the Bluecoat I can't think of any poetry venue in Liverpool that does have disabled access. That the DGPS continues to run successful open floor nights buzzing with new talent is small comfort to those who have difficulty getting there. I understand the Everyman Bistro will be closing for refurbishment next year. It is to be hoped this problem will not be ignored.

As for the Liverpool scene why be in a hurry to pin it down? It has suffered perhaps as a result of the 3-Mersey-poet short-circuit.

MC

DG: That's a neat and concise summary. Well done :-)

Michael: I don't know why some people feel the need to pin down the Liverpool poetry scene. In my view, it is what it is - a collection of different events, run in different venues, by different people, with different styles of presentation and different formats. To say that one event is 'better' than another is entirely subjective, and it's sad when people feel that they have to advertise their own events by criticising the provision of events elsewhere. Surely an event should be able to stand on its own merits rather than relying on the perceived failings of other events. But maybe I'm just being naive...

All art flusters, Whiles the workers live real lives.

errrm...i went to liverpool last week and read at the ask from those who wanted to hear me...

bad idea, bad atmosphere bad evrything...

ive never really been keen on the city and im allowed to say this as half my bloods runs from it.

id have liked to see the reaction to my poem in the arkles...the pilgrim was ok really...it makes me laugh x

"To be a PILGRIM!".

Ta-Dah! LIVERpoetry! It's distincly non-MIDDLE CLARSE... it's the Wheeltappers and Shunters Social Club of the Liverpool poetry scene.

Next open-mic is Wed 12 May, and the theme is ... LIVERPOOL!

Admission is free!

ill fax mine in..or should i send a pod cast...either way i wont be there as i am petrified of those who do not wash.

...and thine ordure doth stink most foul...