steve mellor
The Illiterate Poet
I have recently followed, avidly, Dave Bradley's Desert Island poems idea, and seen the response.
I decided to take the bull by the horns, and see how many of us that inhabit WOL are like me.
Nothing that I write below is to be taken as a 'badge of honour' neither is it an apology. It is merely a statement of fact.
Generally, I read very very little poetry. At school (Grammar), I wasn't a complete idiot, but I can't recall a single poem being taught (it probably was, but it didn't stick). I can't recite a single poem (not even one of my own). I forget the title of a poem within days of having written one (thank God for the computer). I understand very few poems, and therefore feel that I have no platform to comment or criticise the work of others.
I love writing my poems (although they drive me barmy whilst they are in production).
I HATE 'workshops'. I have found that they create a mental block rather than a means of better expressing myself.
When I have written a poem, it's my belief that I have put down EXACTLY what it was I wanted to say on that particular moment in time.
There are probably other things I could own up to, but ...
Am I the only one like this?
How many others are there out there with a similar story?
People who just love to write.
I look forward to your thoughts
I decided to take the bull by the horns, and see how many of us that inhabit WOL are like me.
Nothing that I write below is to be taken as a 'badge of honour' neither is it an apology. It is merely a statement of fact.
Generally, I read very very little poetry. At school (Grammar), I wasn't a complete idiot, but I can't recall a single poem being taught (it probably was, but it didn't stick). I can't recite a single poem (not even one of my own). I forget the title of a poem within days of having written one (thank God for the computer). I understand very few poems, and therefore feel that I have no platform to comment or criticise the work of others.
I love writing my poems (although they drive me barmy whilst they are in production).
I HATE 'workshops'. I have found that they create a mental block rather than a means of better expressing myself.
When I have written a poem, it's my belief that I have put down EXACTLY what it was I wanted to say on that particular moment in time.
There are probably other things I could own up to, but ...
Am I the only one like this?
How many others are there out there with a similar story?
People who just love to write.
I look forward to your thoughts
Thu, 26 Jan 2012 05:28 pm
I'm sure there are very many poets on here that share some or all of the traits you list above Steve.
I think that I am pretty good at understanding poetry so long as it isn't made overly obstructive... I do struggle to remember large tracts of verse though. I can learn it for a slam but tend to forget it after - I couldn't quote you anything that I learnt at school either.
I do remember studying poetry at O and A level, but that's where I left it - (the war poets, Ted Hughes, Wordsworth, T.S. Eliot). I've read a few anthologies since but I don't make it my bed time reading. I think I was very influenced by my older sister, who made me sit listening to tapes of Macbeth as a very young child. I think the love of our beautiful language must have come from that.
Last time I went to a workshop, I ended up writing a poem about not being able to write a poem. I haven't had time to go back to one since. I'll have one more go to see if I find it equally difficult.
I can see merit in the argument that poets need to read more in order to improve their own poetry. However I think it depends on the kind of poetry they are choosing to write. If they write stream of consciousness stuff, then reading other work won't influence - cos that type of poetry comes from within.
If people are writing classical forms of poetry, then I think it helps to study that form and look at some good examples. I do feel confident enough to offer advice, where I think it may be accepted. To offer worthwhile critique you have to spend time though - so often I draw back from it. You also have to be very certain that you won't offend people, which it is easy to to. I'm also happy to receive critique - it is only opinion, after all - you can choose to act on or ignore it.
I think this site is great because it offers something for everyone. Light hearted threads for those who want to just have fun with language, more serious ones for those with greater poetic knowledge. I don't think anyone should worry about being illiterate. If they were illiterate they wouldn't be writing and posting...
I think that I am pretty good at understanding poetry so long as it isn't made overly obstructive... I do struggle to remember large tracts of verse though. I can learn it for a slam but tend to forget it after - I couldn't quote you anything that I learnt at school either.
I do remember studying poetry at O and A level, but that's where I left it - (the war poets, Ted Hughes, Wordsworth, T.S. Eliot). I've read a few anthologies since but I don't make it my bed time reading. I think I was very influenced by my older sister, who made me sit listening to tapes of Macbeth as a very young child. I think the love of our beautiful language must have come from that.
Last time I went to a workshop, I ended up writing a poem about not being able to write a poem. I haven't had time to go back to one since. I'll have one more go to see if I find it equally difficult.
I can see merit in the argument that poets need to read more in order to improve their own poetry. However I think it depends on the kind of poetry they are choosing to write. If they write stream of consciousness stuff, then reading other work won't influence - cos that type of poetry comes from within.
If people are writing classical forms of poetry, then I think it helps to study that form and look at some good examples. I do feel confident enough to offer advice, where I think it may be accepted. To offer worthwhile critique you have to spend time though - so often I draw back from it. You also have to be very certain that you won't offend people, which it is easy to to. I'm also happy to receive critique - it is only opinion, after all - you can choose to act on or ignore it.
I think this site is great because it offers something for everyone. Light hearted threads for those who want to just have fun with language, more serious ones for those with greater poetic knowledge. I don't think anyone should worry about being illiterate. If they were illiterate they wouldn't be writing and posting...
Thu, 26 Jan 2012 09:53 pm
Interesting point this, Steve. I'd like to dispel any impressions of knowledgeableness. er...knowledgeability? Knowing things anyway. My knowledge of poetry is like islands in a vast sea of ignorance. Some people's islands are clearly larger and join up with each other. Some people seem to be flying around and have the overview. Me - I just have islands, but I love what's on them and continue to be touched by what I know and maybe that's the main thing.
Fri, 27 Jan 2012 10:46 am
Okay, I'll bite.
Never read any poetry that I remember at school. All I was interested in was writing stories, in English class. I was skim-reading something on here the other day though and noticed that this doesn't happen now in schools. Well, back then, it was the only class that I never once bunked off from, ever. Loved it too much. Oh, and English teachers loved me too, without fail :D
I think the only poem I read up until joining WOL in Sept 2010 was Paradise Lost. It was mentioned on an Access course I was doing at the time, so I got a copy, sat on my own at home with it and tried to read it. Struggled. So decided to read it out loud, see if it made it easier. It did! I felt proper daft, but my god, it made perfect sense and it was incredibly exciting.
I can recite lots of my own poems now, due to practising before performances - they stick in my long-term memory if I do them enough times. I have a chronically crap short-term memory however.
I've read more poetry since joining WOL than I've ever read in my life, and I understand most of it I think. I totally get off on the variety of poetry we have on here, too. I didn't feel capable enough to offer any crit for ages, but have done a few times lately, more for the reading experience than anything resembling knowledge of techniques or owt.
The idea of workshops both attracts and repels me. Never done one, but I do enjoy the challenge of writing to the themed competitions, and they've pulled some good stuff out of me.
Whenever I put a blog up, it is finished, to my mind...well, 98% of the time it is. I have been known to make last minute changes. But mostly, no, they're done, and I mean to say all that is in them.
I still don't read a whole lot of poetry outside of here, although those books that John Togher provided for us - have read a few of those, and they're alright. Oh and of course, I read all of the bomp.
Never read any poetry that I remember at school. All I was interested in was writing stories, in English class. I was skim-reading something on here the other day though and noticed that this doesn't happen now in schools. Well, back then, it was the only class that I never once bunked off from, ever. Loved it too much. Oh, and English teachers loved me too, without fail :D
I think the only poem I read up until joining WOL in Sept 2010 was Paradise Lost. It was mentioned on an Access course I was doing at the time, so I got a copy, sat on my own at home with it and tried to read it. Struggled. So decided to read it out loud, see if it made it easier. It did! I felt proper daft, but my god, it made perfect sense and it was incredibly exciting.
I can recite lots of my own poems now, due to practising before performances - they stick in my long-term memory if I do them enough times. I have a chronically crap short-term memory however.
I've read more poetry since joining WOL than I've ever read in my life, and I understand most of it I think. I totally get off on the variety of poetry we have on here, too. I didn't feel capable enough to offer any crit for ages, but have done a few times lately, more for the reading experience than anything resembling knowledge of techniques or owt.
The idea of workshops both attracts and repels me. Never done one, but I do enjoy the challenge of writing to the themed competitions, and they've pulled some good stuff out of me.
Whenever I put a blog up, it is finished, to my mind...well, 98% of the time it is. I have been known to make last minute changes. But mostly, no, they're done, and I mean to say all that is in them.
I still don't read a whole lot of poetry outside of here, although those books that John Togher provided for us - have read a few of those, and they're alright. Oh and of course, I read all of the bomp.
Tue, 31 Jan 2012 01:43 pm
I'm afraid I'm one of those who read an awful lot of the stuff. I read so much that it's almost spoiled me for novels cause they go on so long...
I think it probably makes me a bit of a poetry nerd; but so what? I enjoy it...
My own personal reading tends to the experimental/modernist though I do go back and read long dead poets too (really like Emily Dickinson at the minute.)
I think reading other poetry than your own, and reading widely through time and space, can be a definite help to anyone's writing. Just as Blake learned by copying Michealangelo, so we can learn from other poets. But it shouldn't be a burden; you are allowed to find famous poets everybody tells you are great boring and unhelpful.
Poetry is a machine for thinking and feeling with, and like all machines needs oiling some of the time. Part of that oil is your own reading. Don't be afraid of something unfamiliar, or of looking up words you don't know the meaning of yet. Poetry should be enjoyably difficult: neither too easy nor too hard. People will have different levels of what's difficult and easy, so don't worry if you find some impenetrable; move on to something less difficult but still a bit challenging.
I think it probably makes me a bit of a poetry nerd; but so what? I enjoy it...
My own personal reading tends to the experimental/modernist though I do go back and read long dead poets too (really like Emily Dickinson at the minute.)
I think reading other poetry than your own, and reading widely through time and space, can be a definite help to anyone's writing. Just as Blake learned by copying Michealangelo, so we can learn from other poets. But it shouldn't be a burden; you are allowed to find famous poets everybody tells you are great boring and unhelpful.
Poetry is a machine for thinking and feeling with, and like all machines needs oiling some of the time. Part of that oil is your own reading. Don't be afraid of something unfamiliar, or of looking up words you don't know the meaning of yet. Poetry should be enjoyably difficult: neither too easy nor too hard. People will have different levels of what's difficult and easy, so don't worry if you find some impenetrable; move on to something less difficult but still a bit challenging.
Tue, 31 Jan 2012 03:36 pm
I see poetry as painting pictures with words.My fondness for verse undoubtedly has its origins in the brilliance of W.S. Gilbert whose genius was taken even further for me by his razor sharp wit. What a marvellous combination. I have to admit that school didn't feature very much. Our English teacher was a professional rugby player who surely saw the subject as his second string and was happy to talk about anything else. I find the secondhand bookshops a treasure trove for discovering old collections, occasionally private publications from one-off writers from years ago. I read these in bed - often skipping the page-after-page entries (they remind me of the pub bore who can't stop talking and ultimately has little to say that's worth hearing!), and occasionally find a gem or two. But it's all subjective, isn't it? The main thing is that is has to be worth our time, because time is the most valuable thing in this life and we don't need other people - and that includes the poetic windbags, to waste our own.
Tue, 31 Jan 2012 04:01 pm
<Deleted User> (9587)
I hoped to make money out of writing what I perceive as poetry, not being clever enough to write novels ; you can also say a lot in a few words with poetry which suits me fine. I keep trying to quit the whole genre but the Muse is a relentless task person, (I'm dead PC me.) Even now I'd still like to earn some kudos (as well as dosh) for my efforts in this difficult field of work; creating new pieces can seem easy but then there's always a sense of post creative deflation, you want to share your genius with the waiting world...which is largely indifferent to you and what you do.
Tue, 31 Jan 2012 05:19 pm
<Deleted User> (9587)