One of those weird unexpected moments

Fri 29th Jun 2018 09:12

I have appreciated this discussion. It has furthered my understanding and given me food for thought.

Thu 28th Jun 2018 12:35

Optimism and realism will always make a good fellowship.
And so to other things.

Laura Taylor

Wed 27th Jun 2018 09:38

Yep, will add my voice to the 'well said Pat!' chorus, and no, it's not just you, or Stu, or David, that's sick of it. I actually took a small break from here after the Napowrimo month purely due to it. Such dense negativity and misogyny is suffocating. WOL's always been a warm and welcoming place for me, but lately, it's been anything but. And that's not only sad, it's deeply worrying.

Anyway Hazel - your poem has certainly stirred up debate eh? Thank you for sharing it, and in doing so, opening yourself up to potential word wars!

Cynthia Buell Thomas

Wed 27th Jun 2018 09:12

An excellent poem, Hazel, clearly written and perfect for WOL. Powerful experiences should be shared; it's a recognition of our innate humanism. You have scored a shot to the heart. And a scalpel to the brain.

Wed 27th Jun 2018 00:29

Right-o, Wolfgar - what do you suggest that hasn't been
tried, done or more often than not failed? We like to think
we are (and know) better than previous generations - but
how frequently that is found to be a fallacy in terms of human behaviour. You talk a good fight but to use your
own readiness to ask questions, how do you have people
get out of your way when they have no intention of taking
the slightest bit of notice for ANY number of reasons?
Virtue in thought does not equate with effect in action -
even less so these days when so many blather on about
"rights" - and that includes the right of the individual to
choose a life on the streets from what I can see, even to
the degree that saw a council criticised for using its street
cleaning wagons with less than due care and attention
when trying to clean local streets in the early hours, citing
complaints from local dossers. Like those horses led to
water, you can offer answers but you can't make 'em take
notice....in the past or today. Like Greta Garbo, they
want to be (left) alone - unless it suits them otherwise.

Tue 26th Jun 2018 23:07

I can claim to be beyond the middle aged and maybe just
within the middle class range - but that - and a job
dealing with the realities of life 24/7 on the streets in a great city have provided me with experience to comment
on those who have a passing association with its many
problems and feel encouraged to write about it. The hard
knock school of life has its uses, not least when knowing
in some depth what is being discussed - as in this case.
My many contacts with the vagrant element in both the
old East End docklands and West End (where the bright
lights and compassionate passing donor remain constant
in their appeal), were a never ending source of education. enlightenment and occasional entertainment in human terms. It is often surprising how contact through adversity and necessity engenders a growing "if you must" mutual understanding, and any aspect of "pity" is insulting in that context when self-respect still glimmers in a person's eyes and behaviour.
But, as I've observed accurately, the problem is not new -
and is likely to continue despite best intentions. Change what you can
and accept what you can't...despite
any feelings of regret or failure.

Stu Buck

Tue 26th Jun 2018 21:53

not just me thats becoming bored of it then?

this is an excellent piece hazel. good to insight some debate as well, even if its overshadowed by tedium

edit - just as an aside, you can mute these peoples work if you dont want to read it. i think i have more accounts on mute than i do accessible, purely because when i come on here i want to enjoy the work of people whose work i like reading. i dont think WOL subjects you to anything you dont want if you use it properly. there have always been people on here i have removed from the blog timeline, and i would fully expect them to do the same to me if i came across as a prick. which, lets be honest, i am doing now.

<Deleted User> (19421)

Tue 26th Jun 2018 21:30

Pat Hughes

Tue 26th Jun 2018 21:22

I love this piece Hazel,you have something to say that is honest,that makes me appreciate another human beings experience of this mostly shitty world.
Increasingly WOL has become an arena for middle aged,middle classed blokes to write poetry that pokes fun at anybody who isn't exactly the same as them.
There is an undercurrent of misogyny and malice to anybody who isn't the same as these "blokes" and its quite frankly past its sell by date.

Tue 26th Jun 2018 14:20

I enjoy a bit of WOL sparring but this subject sees how
the old adage about the likely outcome of "good intentions" is so often ignored/put aside in the pursuit of
personal "there must be reasons" justifications.
I spent much of my working life (and the years since)
dealing with the vagrant element and found through
hard-earned experience that their presence and their
behaviour had many causes. What cannot be denied is
that they exist - and have done so for generations, with
servicemen a historical section (witness the introduction of
the Vagrancy Act 1824 to deal with the numbers of those
who had served in the various wars of that time and which
contained laws against begging and persistent anti-social
street behaviour - so nothing of that sort is remotely new!).
There will always be those who have their reasons and/or
excuses to remain on the streets and it's sensible to treat
their presence with some circumspection if you are a
passer-by with no experience of how and why they can behave (and react!) as they do.

Laura Taylor

Tue 26th Jun 2018 13:58

Maybe Hazel. We'll never know.

Read The Grass Arena though, reckon you'll love it.

raypool

Tue 26th Jun 2018 13:50

Hi Hazel. Poems like this in the nature of social interaction and the scars that society bears usually lead to lively exchange. Polarised opinions are brought to the fore. It's quite sad that it is left to "well balanced" folk to be faced with a sort of confrontation. Sadly, as with all risks that build up pressure, they are often not intercepted at an early stage, for example in dangerous road junctions or where accidents wait to happen. Perhaps this man's journey has a story which would be worth the hearing. Your poem illustrates to me that the dislocation is like the spearhead of attack. Anyway, good for you Hazel!

There but for the grace of God go I, would seem to fit the bill.

Ray

Tue 26th Jun 2018 13:20

Hi Laura, those words also puzzled me but they were obviously meaningful to him. My first interpretation was, as yours, something psychic or spiritual - but who knows? Maybe it was his way of saying "you haven't got a clue".

suki spangles

Tue 26th Jun 2018 11:03

Hi there Hazel,

Thanks for sharing. A fantastic example of "show, don't tell"...

Suki

Laura Taylor

Tue 26th Jun 2018 10:46

I keep coming back to this line 'You are not open'. Wow. So heavy with potential meanings. Almost puts him in a spiritual/prophet-like place.

I really liked this poem Hazel. It's honest, which poems do need to be in order to connect, and it shows your genuine concern and the moment of shock when suddenly you are no longer in control of your world. Puts you in his place, in that way, as he will also not be in control of much of what goes on in his world, being subject to the whims and cruelties of the law and of the general public.

Have you ever read The Grass Arena by John Healey? I totally recommend it. I saw the film made of it years ago, which was excellent, but I'd say read the book first.

https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/57589/the-grass-arena/

Tue 26th Jun 2018 09:07

............and some fell on stoney ground!

Tue 26th Jun 2018 08:58

Hazel, I worked on a homeless shelter last Christmas until March this year. To a man/woman they were all really good and very polite people.
The only issues that the organisation experienced was at the assessment stage and there I’m afraid your experiences were also noted. Drugs and Alcohol being the culprits.
Over the four months the MK Shelter organisation placed 35 people into secure accommodation so they could apply for work they badly craved.
Sadly (for whatever reason) those who are more deeply entrenched need more than a bed for the night, food for the day and some professional help.
As David regularly describes via his hard-hitting work, sometimes a sticking plaster isn’t good enough, major surgery is required.

Your piece is very thought provoking as you can see below.

Tue 26th Jun 2018 08:49

The main problem here is that when the “David and Brian Show” gets going it tends to make other commenters run a mile and then Hazel’s excellent piece is reduced as a result. Please consider this as a outcome.

<Deleted User> (18980)

Mon 25th Jun 2018 22:53

Hazel - that is very brave of you to admit it.

Sorry about my earlier W.I. comment...I realise in retrospect it came across as rude.

Mon 25th Jun 2018 22:37

Brian, I'm thinking there is a very wobbly line between interference and interaction. I got it wrong this time.

<Deleted User> (18980)

Mon 25th Jun 2018 22:01

I try to be honest David even if it's not PC to do so, particularly on a forum such as this. And I don't change my position even when an attempt is made to embarrass me

Mon 25th Jun 2018 21:59

The experience shook me. I really get that I'm living on another planet and that i crossed a line big time. He has shown me something really important - something I needed to see. Sitting at home tonight thinking, my god - I've got a house, I've got a comfy bed, I can play music, I can watch Netflix, I can make myself a cuppa, I can sleep easy....
This is a terrible poem (if it is even a poem) but I needed to put some words around the experience.

Thanks for the conversation.I

<Deleted User> (18980)

Mon 25th Jun 2018 21:51

I'll be honest, I don't have any comprehension of other people's lives. This applies equally to people who live rough or those who live round the corner from me. I don't interfere in their lives unless requested. I also don't want them interfering in mine. Sounds like they didn't care for Hazel's interference either.

elPintor

Mon 25th Jun 2018 21:40

Your heart shines, Hazel.

<Deleted User> (18980)

Mon 25th Jun 2018 21:09

Booze, drugs, money yes...but custard creams? Did you think it was the local W.I. gathering Hazel?