A good memory is a huge asset to facts retention, for sure, but, IMO, it doesn't indicate the crux of 'intelligence' which I think is a process not a storehouse. Facts have to be associated, interpreted and assigned their due place according to one's ability and experience.

This could go on forever. I bow out, but it's been a pleasure talking with you.

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Ray, I'm very ambivalent about what constitutes 'intelligence'; there are so many varieties. I have always thought that IQ tests were an inflated EGO trip for the test-makers, and woefully inadequate as a definitive measurement of intellectual ability. IMO, the most they accomplished was to test the quality and extent of the material which had been taught up to the 'time of the testing point', ie. education, a game of chance.

For me, intelligence is often confused with ostentatiously 'clever' - those verbal quips and word play scenarios suitable to fourteen-year-old schoolboys, spewed out by newspapers and TV presenters.

So I totally agree with the premise that the truly intelligent person knows that he/she knows nothing. But the drive to learn from the widest possible spectrum is insatiable.

Ray, you did ask. So I'm trying to be honest. Not necessarily right, just honest.

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Ray, thanks for your comments on Cur. Suffice to say "you won't".

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Hi Ray,
Thanks for your feedback on The Rhyme Of The Ancient Partygoer-it is one of those where I started off with the idea for its ending and then had to create the lines to get there. It is, indeed, just a story.

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Cheers Ray, re 'I stood and stared'. It was during one of my moments of contemplation, and, catching my reflection as I stared out of the window. I do have the original mirror on the original wall and the original foto too. ;-) Tommy

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Hi Ray, thanks for your comments on Bobby The Bonehead Bouncer-a poem written in anger but given that comic book approach as a piss take of that breed. As a working musician I've no doubt you've seen more than your fair share of their thuggery!

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thanks for your kind and insightful comments on 'Don't Pay The Poets' Ray - very interesting points you make - and I would never expect a poet to be paid for an open mic spot - because, generally, they are performances with/between peers - so all equal. Where the problem lies is in landlords and promoters putting events on where some of the performers get paid - but rarely the poet - even though they put just as much into the performance. As an example - if I use the same words and put a guitar around my neck, I'm likely to get paid. If I just use the words it's, somehow, different. An interesting topic, really enjoyed reading yours (and everyone's) take on it
cheers
Ian

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hi ray. his written stuff is certainly open to debate, but the videos he posts are oddly affecting. i have only recently heard of him (i saw a performer read one of his pieces last week) and he seems to be very much an 'anti-poet', but like art, poetry should illicit a response and his stuff definitely does. its harsh and certainly not true poetry, but i have to say i like it.

if you can stomach it, watch this video in full and tell me what you think. i'd be genuinely interested to know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bR6uOsDn-Q

its certainly worth persevering with. the first minute or so is mostly unintelligible blabbering, but by the end, like i said before, its oddly affecting.

even if you hate him, were both talking about him. i wonder who is talking about us?

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Oh, Ray, I woke up this morning and the connection jumped right into my head, although I couldn't remember which source it was and the full scope of its resulting comments. Yesterday I went back through your works to try to find the link, for I was sure there was one. I realize you didn't think 'No' was funny. I apologize; I meant no offence. Sometimes casual flippancy really backfires, and I do know better. Honestly sorry.

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Ray, I don't follow your comment 'OK, then.' on my profile. Would you explain a bit. I've obviously missed something. Thanks much. CBT

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hi ray. for maximum annoyance in the area of non-poetry look up steve roggenbuck.

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Hahaa - brrrr, it has gone a bit nippy eh?!

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Thanks for the kind words on 'On The Slag Heap' Ray - it's heartbreaking to see the demise of northern towns under Tory governments - whilst they feed the rich City firms. T'was ever thus
Ian

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Hi Ray, thanks for your comments on The Old Crow-a poem I like and wonder about by turns. So putting it on here for feedback is helpful.

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ooOOoo cordless eh? I looked at them but the sodding charger cost more than the saw itself! Bugger that.

Nope - we only have outdoor fires. I'd love to convert the gas fire into a proper one, as I grew up with a coal fire and am quite obsessed with flames in general :D Was a bit of a firebug as a child - everything got burned!

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Ah so you buy your wood? I refuse to, on the grounds that a) we're skint and b) we can go and get it ourselves for nowt! Also, we really like going and gathering firewood. It's part of that primal process. The fella usually uses a manual saw but I bought him a leccy one for his birthday, and you've never seen more delight shown at an electrical item as that day haha :D

Enjoy getting lost in your flames, Ray :)

ps - I noticed you'd edited. MUCH better now, and it was already great ;)

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Hi Ray Glad you liked my Chicago poem!

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Ray
sorry it's taken a while for me to reply - I'm not on WOL as much as I used to be - too busy performing rather than writing at the moment.
Thanks for your kind comments on 'Black Spire' - I hosted a writing workshop in Wakefield Cathedral earlier this month and this was the output.
I was born in Wakefield and have an obsession with its history - the picture accompanying the poem is so evocative of that turn of the century industrial northern landscape - I just loved the idea of this 'unclean' building being revered and looked up to..
Hopefully I'll be posting more poems on here again once I clear some gigs - thanks once again for your kind comments
regards
Ian

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Thank you for reading and commenting, Ray. Much appreciated. x

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Oh, and by the way - you wouldn't believe the amount of research I've done on poems before, to make sure of the accuracy of some of my claims or ideas. I've often found it leads me into some incredibly interesting territory - to the point where it's completely changed the poem that I started out with and made it something very different. I recommend it every time.

Haha - an elixir of youth? No such thing chap - unless, of course, you'd like to write one into existence? Hmmm...now THERE'S an idea ;)

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Thanks for the kind words on 'Prisoner 1.0' Ray. Will look to check out some of your stuff soon. Need to get back on to WoL full-time!

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Hello Ray,
thanks for reading the Koan on a Wish. This dictionary definition of a koan might explain better than I can.

"a koan is a paradox to be meditated upon that is used to train Zen Buddhist monks to abandon ultimate dependence on reason and to force them into gaining sudden intuitive enlightenment".

I was reading some Murakami short stories and this conundrum offered itself up as a koan.

best regards,

Graham

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Hello RP - it's always a pleasure to read your stuff and
occasionally comment. I am impressed by your musical
background - and as a lyricist (with some published and
recorded songs as lyricist/tunesmith) I can identify with
the duality of your interests to date.
I came to writing words in lyric and poem form late in
life after a career in public service and found it both
enjoyable and liberating. My former work provided the
advantage of requiring discipline in formulating reports
and the need for a good vocabulary which I've found
most useful on WOL and in approaching the writing of
songs when it comes to a feeling for "what works"....
I hope!
Keep posting!
Cheers
Mark

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Hey ray, cheers for your comments on 'kitchen' very nice to get such warm feedback- it was the first poem id finished in about six months!

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i just made that up by the way in case you think ive lost my talent...

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no problem, its a great poem. jarvis cocker should perform it, that would be something. those sultry yorkshire tones just drip the kind of smut you wrote about. as for bukowski, its his last line trick i love so much. its easy to do;
i lay beside her
heaving and panting
she sighed forever
while outside the azaleas wept
but difficult to master (my version above proving this...)
it just transforms the mundane into something wondrous.

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Hi Ray,
Thanks for your feedback on 'The Wonderful Irony'-it has been brewing in my brain ever since I discovered that particular set of circumstances-and fell out of my pencil in one mad burst last night.

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Hi Ray, l have read your post re Vertices lll and am considering a suitable reply. :-)

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i remember watching the bbc adaptation of that when i was younger but have never approached the books. this will be remedied the next time the mobile library comes (doubt they will have it but i can order them). cheers.

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Thanks Ray :) Your words are very encouraging. I'm happy you liked my work.

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Ray, thank you for your encouraging comments on War of Words.

regards,

Graham

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Hi Ray,
Thanks for reading and getting the point behind my words :0
Your sample piece is brilliant. Can I offer a more in depth critique of your work? I cannot, except I know what appeals to me as a lay reader, something that resonates with me :)
Preeti

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Cheers Ray re 'tasty flesh'. You have a good grasp of the thrust of the piece.

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I have an itsy-bitsy teeny-weeny inkling of Sacred Mathematics of Ancient Civilizations, enough only to be impressed by the thought processes of so long ago, and the relative lack of real progress made since then. There was a U.S. Mathematical Movement to reintroduce some of the ideas, complete with ancient vocabulary. It was worth a look-through, enough to appreciate it, not to master it. Ye Gods! So to speak.

Also, I know of the kabbala? (spelling uncertain). I'm pretty sure it came up in 'Foucault's Pendulum', and I had to search out some info, just for my own satisfaction. I have a lengthy computer printout somewhere, offering a kind of precis. Hardly adequate, but an effort to be a bit knowledgeable. I could be totally wrong about this connection.

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just realised I wrote all that and didnt recommend any of their music...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY2aHxWV1xE

this song will sum them up a lot better than i ever could.

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Hello Ray,
Half man Half biscuit are a band from the wirral. They have been around for ages now, and were a massive part of my musical journey. The music is fairly basic, post-punk style but the lyrics are something else. They perfectly detail the monotony of living, the ridiculousness of celebrity culture and are very english! here's some of my favourite lines so you can see what you think;

You never hear of folk getting knocked on the bonce
Although there was a drive-by shouting once

I’m gonna feed our children non-organic food
And with the money saved, take them to the zoo

Did you play in the Garden of Eden?
Were the goalkeeper’s gloves to you tossed?
‘Cos it seems to me you’re the reason
You’re the reason why Paradise lost

although the line i instantly thought of when i read your piece was, somewhat bizarrely...

I want to perch myself halfway up a metal staircase with the Polydor girls and talk about meerkats

I dont do them much justice, but they really are fab!

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Once again Ray an astute observation by yourself. Tommy

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ah Ray, it's always a pleasure reading your poems. I also plopped a comment on your pigeon post to help keep you hydrated. Take care.

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HI RAy Glad you liked my Charlie Parker poem!'

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Ray- re Taxi "weary inevitability" spot on. I could not have put it any better. Tommy

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Thank you, Mr Pool. It is always very special to have a poem acknowledged. I will try to follow up with a look at your work as well.

David Moore is very good, isn't he? A bit like a storm- battered ship trying to get fresh bearings, with much to say and a true talent to express it.

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Welcome to Write Out Loud, Ray. Good to meet you at Guildford last week, and to hear your "Alan Bennett" poem. Keep posting! Greg

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