For a while it had seemed that there were fewer comments to blogs on WOL than there used to be. A rough count on a couple of months confirms the impression.

March 2011 343 comments on 251 blogs
June 2011 294 comments on 220 blogs

March 2013 221 comments on 304 blogs
June 2103 181 comments on 246 blogs

Average, about 1.3 - 1.4 comments per blog two years ago, 0.73 - 0.74 now.

It's curious. Roughly the same number of blogs is being posted. Are the current users of the site more self-centred or less appreciative? Are the poems less worthy of comment? Are there distractions or impediments? Are frequent commenters busy elsewhere? What's going on?

I've thought the same thing myself Dave. My view on this would be that so many of the comments are just filips for the writer, well dones, loved it etc etc, with very little critique about the piece itself.

I know many of the poets on WOL know each other personally and therefore it can appear like an old pals club sometimes.

It takes a significant event to get some really true colours flying so to speak.

Personally I'm always amazed to find anyone commenting on my work, good or bad, but am also curiously thankful that they have done so.

Perhaps more honesty wouldn't go amiss. We should all be capable of receiving negative critique as well as positive stroking in order to improve our abilities.

You can't blame it on summer - we are looking at March and June - it did rain a lot last June (I remember cos I was having building work done) - but I don't think the weather picked up this year till July anyway.

As Steve says. I think it's natural to have a turnover in members, as people move on, discover other things, in some cases heal...

Many new contributors don't seem to comment though - which is a shame, as it's great to have fresh blood, particularly in the discussion area.

I hear what you are saying about comments which mean nothing Graham/Steve. Giving critique takes time - there is often a lot I would change about a poem - normally a zillion syllables that need deleting to make it flow. It's hard saying that to someone though and if they can't hear it in the first place, you wonder if there's any point in highlighting it.

It's sometimes easy and safer just to say what you like about a poem.

interesting topic Dave
I'm not new to the site, but haven't been around that long either - so here's my view:
feedback is a difficult beast - if everyone signs up for it and participates it can be a really empowering and helpful activity - the problem is that a lot of people feel uncomfortable in both giving and receiving feedback - so it tends to become a back slapping exercise that everyone can feel relatively comfortable with.
I have no problem in giving or receiving feedback (it was a major part of my job before redundancy)but it is only feasible if the recipient is prepared to accept a warts and all approach.
The problem on a site like WOL is that, unless you know someone quite well, you just can never tell how feedback will be received - and as this isn't a site with much mischief in it, it's better to assume people don't want to hear anything that could be construed as negative. Put simply, a lot of people are here to affirm their position as writers to themselves - there is no signed mandate to say that we should involve ourselves more widely than that.
One way around this would be to create a 'bear pit' link, where folk could post poems specifically to receive warts and all feedback - and if everyone played their part this could be a really powerful way to learn and develop - unfortunately, as many have seen recently - a difference of opinion or stance can really taint the trust that is needed for tis to work properly.
As for falling numbers of feedback - the site has probably reached a tipping point whereby original members (who have grown and trusted each other as they have grown) has been diluted with a new gene pool of 'newbies' who will take time to establish themselves and their propensity to give and take feedback. In the meantime, as Isobel says, the original members will probably visit less or drift away altogether - and when that happens the trusted pool gets shallower and so on and so on....
I genuinely feel that you cannot mandate how a site can be run - unless the rules are laid out plainly for all to see and everyone signs up to them. If that isn't done (and I don't think it should be)everyone should just do what they want to do with it - be mindful of peoples feelings - recognise where helpful comments could be beneficial - and learn from mistakes if you misread another users propensity to 'accept' constructive feedback.

Interesting, one and all - no lack of comments here.

Ian there is a bear pit already - the Poetry review discussion group.
http://www.writeoutloud.net/public/newsgroupsview.php?NewsGroupsID=28
As I understand it, it's a place where the gloves are off - even John Aikman could bring all his guns to bear. The trouble is that we don't use it - hasn't been used since Dec 2012.

Are we too thin-skinned to risk it, or do people not know about it? Personally, it feels to me like somewhere poetry would be taken very seriously from a technical point of view and I quickly feel out of my depth with that, so tend to avoid it. A regrettable approach, nae doot.

Is anyone willing to risk putting a poem there? Maybe when they do they should post a blog to say what they've done.

Even John Aikman? How very dare you! : )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyDhsDUorGA


: )

Jx

Ah! John Aikman! I remember him!

I almost remember me!

I admit I've drifted away from WOL over the last year or so and sometimes think about returning to the fold - but when I do look in I feel that the lack of comments almost makes it seem hardly worth it. I know posting a poem isn't supposed to be an ego trip and the lack of comments doesn't mean that no one is actually reading the stuff - but it does put me off.

Coming back after a break seems hard. I may try... I still think WOL is great!

Now, if Moxy would come back... :)

Lovely to see Kath Hewitt back btw :)

I have got busier of late. I really enjoyed the discussion on my poems. Lots of people got stuck in. I logged on the other night and it said there was one user online. Yes, it was me. Maybe it is the fact that this has been nicer weather so we are more outdoors. Its true the really warm weather only started on the last new moon, but the moon before that wasn't bad. We are all gardening I think, or cycling or having holiday times.

I will put another poem up to be chopped up and improved. Its one I wrote yonks ago. See what you think, if anyone is willing to have a look.

It has to be reciprocal - otherwise it's like talking to a wall - and what's the point in that?

p.s Yes, glad to see people who were once active come back...
And Ann - love your new profile photo - beautiful!

ooh Thanks Anne! I do like you're new pic btw :-)

I wonder if more people are accessing the site through mobile devices? It makes reading easier, commenting harder.

in my case, it's simply a lack of time as i simply ain't writing as much and getting the time to come on the website is rare, rare, rare.

hopefully will get chance as i miss it, and hopefully more people will start commenting again. there is too many poems on here without comments which is a huge shame!

Interesting topic; I post on WOL because its nice to have a forum for people like me -unpublished writers. Great to get comments about my work but as someone else said its hard to be critical when you don't know the person at the receiving end! Do they really want feedback that might be a bit negative? Personally, any feedback is great and its nice to think that I've written something that makes people want to comment. My most commented on work was something I wrote while sat at work having a brew and was about wanting to sound like Richard Burton which was a bit of fluff really although rooted in reality. Some things I really worked on hard on like my poems about JFK and Aryton Senna lie uncommented on . .(perhaps they weren't as good as I thought!)

Jonnie's comment "I wonder if more people are accessing the site through mobile devices? It makes reading easier, commenting harder" may well be true. Maybe WOL could have a "like" facility like they do on facebook? Hopefully people would still comment fully when they can, but at least if it's easier when you're on a mobile or whatever, a "like" would be nicer than nowt!

I don't comment often but I do mean what I say when I do. I would always welcome comments, even negative. It shows someone is reading and I like to be told where I am going 'wrong'.
A 'like' button is a good idea though.

'Like' would be useful even on a desktop computer. Sometimes it's all I want to say, but it seems so inane, especially if it's already been said by someone else.

It is great to hear positive feedback and generally I keep negative comments to myself unless I can make a clear constructive comment.

So much is subjective that to voice my dislike of content, form or tone would feel self important, especially on what is someone else's attempt to express, record or describe something that is often very personal.

But a like button sounds a good plan as one would know that people were at least reading (hmm not convinced that is always the case on FB) your work.

I can understand people being hesitant to express negative feedback, but there seems to be a general lack of feedback positive or otherwise.

If you've bothered to read a poem, it doesn't hurt to comment on it - even if it's a question of just commenting on the subject matter.

When people don't comment at all, you wonder if anyone's reading the stuff.

As a regular commenter, I often get hacked off with it all. It so often seems like a one way street - and by that I'm not bitching about how many comments I get. I'd just like to see people comment on other people's work more - and if I'm being honest, that people took more time to think about what they are saying in their comment.

'Good stuff' or 'nice one' - there's little point in saying something like that, beyond getting your commenting ratio up...

That's a purely personal opinion, of course.

'That's a purely personal opinion, of course'

and that's half the problem...we are apologising for our opinions all the time. We're asked for them (by virtue of a poem appearing on here) but the moment we express one we are vilified, however much we justify our opinion.

I was once 'reminded' by the moderators, that many folks posting on here might be suffering from mental illness and have low self esteem, so 'lighten up'. It never seemed to occur to them that several of the respondees might also be suffering similarly. 'Crap poem...you must be mad...constructive response...you must be bad'.

I do like the idea that, unlike other forms of art, in poetry, insanity is indicated by how dreadful your art is, or how sensitive you are to criticism, rather than any critique.

I'll shut up now....I've been drinking!

: )

Jx

John
genuinely interested in what you say - but I'm not sure that there is an 'open contract' on this site just to say what you like. After all, it's only your opinion.
Why is this site different to any other interaction in the real world. Would you really go up to someone on the bus and say ' hate that dress love' or 'god, you're fat' or 'you talk like you've never been educated' or 'my god, you're crap'?
NO - I think it is the anonymity of a site like this that brings out that type of behaviour in individuals or posters - after all, you're just as likely to offend - just less likely to get a smack in the gob!
now if you'd like to have a go at critiquing anything I've written then please go ahead - because I'm neither mad or too sensitive to take your vitriol or, indeed, your adulation - but then I would say that wouldn't I???? :-)

At the risk of repeating myself, the existence of a Poetry Review discussion group, where all critique is welcome, suggests strongly that some courtesies should be observed in the Blogs section. That doesn't mean that negative comments should be avoided - there are regular suggestions for improvement, many of which are gracefully and gratefully received. But it does suggest some restraint and that suggestions for improvement should not be overly blunt.

couldn't agree more David - well said (that's a purely personal opinion of course) :-)

John you are funneee! xx

Well I've just made about a million comments - you should see my halo glow!!! :)

I would love to make pertinent comments but feel unqualified to do so, so I generally comment when something moves me, makes me laugh or is poignant, etc. Am loving reading the blogs though, it's interesting to read the different styles and try and pick up some ideas. See what I mean....

Bring the Poetry Review choice clearly up front. I've replied to this 'comments' question recently, and to some extent, but obviously not here. Where then? All my own points are already here, well-expressed by others.

However, on one note, we do still have the option of the 'no comments' button, don't we, as we enter our postings? Anyone of very vulnerable feelings should automatically use this choice. When I am seriously reading a work with the 'comment option' unblocked, I do not want to be agonising over whether the poet is or is not psychologically available for an honest opinion.

I actually heard from Moxie the other day, in another context. I hope she realizes she is still fresh in our minds, as are so many others who have had to discontinue their participation here for many different reasons.

Maybe we should have a "only nice comments please"! button too! ;)