I am not really talking about content here, as I never want to see poets censored, however extreme and coarse some of the output might be.

I am talking about the sheer number of posts.

Presumably, those who post poems want their work to be (a) read (b) discussed / critiqued.

So why do some people post as many as SEVEN poems in rapid succession one after the other? It's too much.

Surely it makes sense to post poems, new or old or re-worked, ONE AT A TIME!! Or at the most, put two up at a time.

I understand when writers have a rush of creativety and want to get it all out there, but really, think about it, it's not a good idea.

And it is not the way to ensure comments are left on poems.

As poets we are part of the wider world where there's a very serious problem of information overload and fatigue. We, of all people, really shouldn't be adding to that problem.

Quality please ... not quantity.

Hi Steve,

I think you have posted this in the wrong place Steve. I have been banging on about this since Feb in the disscussion topic" Restrict poets blog posts on this site" which started with the opener -

There are far too many poets putting blog posts on this site!
They are posted at such a rate it is almost impossible to keep up with reading them all and making considered comments.
The number of blog posts has increased massively, the number of comments on them has decreased.
There are so many more new members that more people sould be available to comment but that doesn't seem to be the case.
Solution - Limit everyone to 1 post per week. This would make people think more about what they post, raise the quallity of postings in the blog section, increase feedback via comments, prevent the blog section imploding through being swamped.
(I realise this is a controvertial perhaps provocative post but am interested in your points of view. And before you ask, yes, I am a frequent poster of sometimes poor quality poems)

Notice you haven't posted there so maybe you have missed it. So lets both get on that high horse eh steve! Whose steering?

Winston

Yeah, I think Win and I are of a similar mind on this one. But will people take notice?!

I don't think restricting people to one poem/blog a week is realistic though. Better to tell people: "One blog positng per day - MAX".

This is a great website. fantastic functionality, but it is open to abuse by over-use.

Hey... "Abuse by Over-use".... that's not a bad idea / title for a poem. But I digress...

The blog section should be more about the art of poetry and less about the showcasing of egos.

And we could do with fewer peurile ranters posing as poets (no names, no pack drills!) - but I think that might be a vain hope, given how dumbed-down Western societies have become.

I'm with you on this one Winston and Steve. If poets restricted their posting, we would all appreciate the poetry so much more and take time to read and understand. I really do want to keep abreast of what's going up but it is becoming overfacing. Sometimes you miss really good poems cos they disappear so quickly. How about a max of 3 per week? I would never want to do more than one - but that would at least be a start...

i agree
i agree
i agree
i agree
i agree
i agree
i agree

It is a difficult one to comment on because poets have the freedom to post anything which isn't insulting to others in any way, shape or form.
Thing is, commenters have the freedom also to read and/or comment on what they read. It is up to those people to decide when and where to stop according to the time they have available and up to the poets who post, to decide for themselves when enough is enough.
The problem comes when someone who might post regularly feels their poetry is being ignored and takes it as a personal slant when in truth it might be as simple as not having the time to browse, read and comment in appropriate fashion.

I still think the poetry review section was a great idea.
The format not so good for those who like to review because like the discussion forum, you can't scroll to see the writing like you can in the blog section.
Maybe that's the answer.
Then poets have a choice where to get their work ''out there.''
If they want their work just read and commented on for its content post in blogs and if they want an accurate review, post it in the reviews section.

Then again, poets who like to comment on their friends or people whose poetry they like to read knowing the poet will appreciate a comment could just go to the poet profile and click on the recent blogs by that poet.

We all have freedom to choose our options!
We cannot be held responsible for poets insecurities.
When an individual feels they are being unfairly treated they should let someone know. There are lots of people on this site, including myself who care about the poets as much as their poetry. Some will slip through the net because of their fear of opening up and telling someone how they feel.
Lots of us have our personal email addresses in full view on our profiles so there is no reason for anyone to feel it will be seen by the whole world but if we don't know, how can we help?

Sorry, there i go again! Went completely off the subject!
Or did i.?

I have to say you're probably whistling in the wind. Many poets are looking for some kind of affirmation/public platform for what they write, not evaluation. There's a lot of fragile egos out there.

You're right Steve (Waling) there are a lot of fragile egos out there and mine is no less fragile at times which is the reason i suggest that when feeling fragile, people should reach out to someone who can maybe try to put things into some kind of emotionally acceptable perspective.

Err, 'Write Out Loud - encouraging poetry performance'.
at www.writeoutloud.net

"emotionally acceptable perspective".

The Samaritans 0800...

I rang the Samaritans at 3am this morning. thye weren't very helpful.

I told 'em: "Of course it's an emergency!! I've eaten a whole Toblerone!"

OK Darren, i get your point!
My post might seem a bit or a indeed a lot too serious for some of the hardened souls on this website but as i've said before, where there is a community link involving real people with real feelings, there has to be some form of communication when people get hurt or upset by comment or feedback or out of ignorance.

No, i'm not suggesting some sort of counselling service.
Just some communication when there are misunderstandings or just plain insults.
I almost wrote ''pig headed'' but didn't want it to be misunderstood by the pigs or the poets. :-)

Ok, There are people that post toooo many poems in a day or even a week. They block up the blog, with poems that I know I have read before, or heard before, and to be frank, did not enjoy the first time around.Some people on here seem to be almost pros, that are just useing the site to promote themselves, yet they almost never read and or comment on other peoples poetry.
I have read and missunderstood many a poem on here, if I enjoyed it, however, I will comment, I almost always put my 2 cents in, and expect an answer back, I try not to hurt peoples feelings. I have been missunderstood on this site, and now post very little, as some seem to need a therapist, as they attack, when they should try and understand, that we are not all alike and will not see things the same.I agree with much, if not all of what Janet has had to say. Just me over here in America, putting my 2 socialist cents in! ha

Dear Madam

We nearly said 'just sitting on a picket fence sprouting godwottery and spiritual rhetoric does little to improve a person's poetry and its performance'. We're glad we didn't.


Yours in anticipation

Messers

A Hardenedsoul & P Igshead

Okay, here's the thing. The internet, is an unrestricted medium, well except in certain countries, but let's not digress. This means that poets have unlimited resources to publish their work, if they really want it to be read their must be a way to get it in front of people.

The real problem about unlimited blog posts is not that people don't get the opportunity to read all of the one's they want, rather if everyone did suddenly start reading all of them it would cost the organisers of this site a whole heck of a lot in bandwidth alone. So let's not thing of just ourselves and our inability to read all the blogs eh?

That said it is possible that restricting the number of blog posts could become unappealing, to those posting huge amounts. In fact there are thousands, nay hundreds of thousands of free blog softwares available and being used by people to publish their work.

My point in all this? I understand both problems. I gave up reading the blogs because the volume was simply too high and the quality...well not engaging enough to make me want to sift through the huge mountain of posts before me. Which makes me feel guilty I may have missed some gems in there. The other problem, the organisers of this fair site. It is hard to run a site that caters for thousands. It is even harder to understand your audience. I can of course only speak for my expreience, but I am always looking how to bring new people to websites to expose them to the content, without losing too many existing visitors/members.

Personally, though I don't use the blogs I like the fact that you are free to post as often as you like.

Dear sir,

WE? Who's we?
You wouldn't be taking it upon yourself to speak for or on the behalf of others now would you sir?
Speak up man!
Say what you gotta say! How about in English language which everyone can understand, or is that too simple a task?
My brain's frazzled already with metaphors.
A classic example of how intention can be misinterpreted.
( o )

It seems inevitable that whatever rules are decided upon or conventions established, some people will wish to use the blog section of this site as a mirror for their own egos. My understanding (and it's only my understanding) of the purpose of the blog is that it is there to post one's own work and receive feedback on it, but perhaps, more importantly, to read and give feedback on the work of other poets.

Personally I have found that I have learned more about poetry from reading and critiquing the work of others than I ever would have done in isolation. It has also helped me a great deal by reading crits other poets have given - both to my writings and to those of others. It seems to me that there are quite a few "poets" using this site who feel that there is nothing more to learn and have nothing to contribute to the site other than their own "perfect" work.

I have always tried to be constructive and tactful in the comments I have posted (some may disagree!) but it is obvious that there are also those posting here who see poetry as some kind of therapy. We all seem to write for very different reasons - to communicate, to entertain, to have our ideas and thoughts validated and for commercial reasons, to name but a few.

I don't really mind how many posts people put up; if I have nothing to say about them I won't comment on them. Similarly if I feel that my comments might be unwelcome, or bruise a fragile ego, I also refrain from commenting. The comments I post are, and can only be my opinion. I do understand, however, that all posts take up bandwidth and that bandwidth costs.

What I would like to see is more comment and feedback. A long string of posts by the same author often puts me off even reading/listening to them. I suspect it is the same for many.

Yes, I agree that some self-restraint should be used when posting - but how on earth could that be enforced? The "guilty parties" probably never visit this discussions forum, and some are, I guess, just naturally selfish.

I have suggested before that it might be an idea to encourage posters to give at least three crits/comments for each piece they post. I realise this is unenforceable, but a simple message added to the "post" page might discourage excessive posting, and prick the conscience of those prone to do so.

I don't wish to see this site fail due to excessive postings, or to turn into a "dead letter" box without any dialogue. In the end, people are as varied as the poems posted here - good and bad. It doesn't usually take too much intellect to work out where they are coming from and their motivation. I will therefore continue to treat them accordingly.

Regards,
A.E.

Well Said A.E.
I agree wholeheartedly with all your comments.

As in the past, this debate boils down to having a healthy post to comment ratio.

As with many things in life the more you put in the more you get out.

How can anyone think that just to put up a mass of blogs in one go without commenting on others is a good idea.

Win

Anthony does raise similar viewpoints to many on here.
I know where he's coming from when he says he's learnt more from reading and commenting/critiquing others work than if left on his own.
I'm not sure the blogs section was originally introduced for posting new poems though. Only admin can answer that one. I suppose it is something which developed over time and it's stuck. I have noticed it is encouraged now though because it's mentioned when joining the site that the blogs is the place to get your work noticed.
I do wonder if there were less blog inundations would the people who like to critique and comment go to the poets profile to view the rest of their work?
I do when a particular poets work strikes a chord with me but even then, if there's a very long string of poetry on it i tend to stray away. Overload in any form is off-putting.

Which brings me to another question.
Is it the overload of blog posts which causes excess bandwidth and therefore loss of Write out loud?
Admin?

Agree with Winston and AE . Far too many multiple blogs going up which sometimes are their own worst enemy. Even when the work is good and worthwhile, you switch off because there is just too much to take in.
Difficult to enforce moderation though on a site like this.

In general, what might be considered as 'too many blogs' even on the Profile page? I was shocked to see I had seven for July. I swore I wouldn't do that, and look at me - maybe guilty as charged.

I find, like most perople have already mentioned, that multiple, consecutive blogs by the same person, puts me off to the extent that I don't read ANY of them. And what's more - if I see more blogs by the same person in following months - I tend to just skip over them. For me - less is definitely more!

What draws me in to read a piece of work?
- well - obviously if I've read and enjoyed your work before I'll be pre-disposed to like it.
- if I've seen your comments on other people's works or on discussion threads and your opinion seems to be considered, intelligent, witty or respectful - but not over-opinionated - I'm more likely to go and read your work.
- if your work is well laid out and easy to read (i.e formatted), spell-checked and has some respect for grammar and punctuation - I'm more likely to go and read your work.
- and I suppose too - if you're friendly and seem to value my work and/or my opinion then I'm definitely going to go and read your work.

On the question of how many is too many? No easy answer to that .... but my thought is perhaps one or two a week at the most - and absolutely not more than one a day. I'd rather have quality than quantity.
If we were limited to only so many within a certain time period - I know it would make me consider more the quality of what I'm posting .... if I can only post one ... I'm not going to waste my turn on THAT one.
Similarly for the multiple posters - I only have so much time in my day to spend reading poetry, if you're banging out a dozen at a time you're unlikely to draw me in to read them.... I'll go and read something by someone who considers a little more carefully what they're writing.....
Anyway - enough of the essay......!
Cx

I am in agreement.
multiple posts like seven in one go!
TOO MUCH!

I need to get my ratio up, I'm reading tons and not offering enough critique, I'll work on that.
I like to post 2 or or 3 max a week.

they do come in burst these poem things.....................

I still maintain I AM ANNOYED AT PEOPLE WHO JUST USE THEIR PROFILE AS A PLUG WITHOUT GETTING INVOLVED IN THE SITE IN ANY OTHER WAY if you paid to do that, fine, but otherwise seems unfair.

eg poet xyz has once again updated profile, but with what, yet another advert. and poet xyz has not got involved in the spirit of the site. its one of those things that niggles me. seems unfair to do.its rare but it does happen here in an almost commercial way.

If only I could find the inspiration - let alone the time, to be able to post as much stuff as some people seem to be able to do! I have to agree entirely with all the points Christine makes so eloquently. Pete's post re some poets just using the site as a shop window is also very relevant. Some people just seem to be purely selfish and have no sense of proportion - unfortunately it seems that they are the same people that never read the discussion forums.

I was totally bemused by a poet who recently used the blogs to advertise a room in a flat. I don't recall ever reading a poem from this poet - or maybe they all read like adverts. I did leave a wry comment but he deleted it along with others - the advert remains. Couples weren't welcome - there must be an 'ism' in there somewhere!
Yes - I hate seeing a string of poems from the same poet unless it is a poet that really really inspires me. It has been said before but I'll reiterate - you get a far better response if you post less often - people can only handle so much.

And so as there are now some guidelines which appear when you visit the discussion forum, can we now have some which pop up when you try and post a blog?

I have asked for this before.

These guidelines can also be sent by admin to people who join WOL and to those guilty of the type of posting highlighted in this thread.

Winston

I did count 11 consecutive postings on one occasion. Like everyone says it just puts people off reading it and probably also irritates someone who has posted a poem that gets immediately swamped and possibly ignored.

I am befuddled by, and probably jealous of, anyone who can be so prolific in the first place. Maybe they store them up over months and years to release them as their proud set of octuplets or whatever multiple it may be. I am more of the nine month gestation of a single offspring school myself. As prolific as a one legged striker.

toodle pip!

John

Hi all... Surely the answer to multiple blogs (2 + ) is: All poems go to poets own site and each poet can post 1 poem to a 'general' posting site per day or week or whatever is decided! I am as guilty as many others re 'multiple' blogs but thought I was just entering them on my own 'page' Oops...

Tommy

Considering the light of some of the subject matter, and many of the comments, thought I may drag this discussion thread out of it's slumber. Seems to be an issue on which many have a distinct opinion, and some of a varying nature.

I like to put forward something that I have written, although I don't particularly class myself as a 'poet' in the strictest form - if there is one that is - and welcome the criticism, in fact by posting something, I am saying ok, come at me from all angles. I think I stated this once before in the 'catharsis' thread.

I do find that I may miss out on some really good pieces because I don't have the time to read all of them, and I do tend to skip over multiple blogs sometimes. I do not know what the answer is, this site was a site that was set up for all.

Good idea to resurrect this one Nicky. Some light rather than heat needed on this subject. I agree with what you say and what others have said earlier. People's feelings have to be respected but multiple blogging can be anti-social and quality seems to suffer anyway. What do Admin think - are they prepared to consider placing limits?

Is it limits that are needed? one could say that this could implode and create problems with regards to freedom of speech etc etc. And everyone has the right to blog whatever they like. The tear and share was a good idea, and janet followed it through on a doiscussion thread.

However, if the site begins to put rules on blogging then that may scare potentially good poets or poets that are developing away - an the fear is that it may become 'elitest'. Maybe it is just down to self restraint.

I think it would help if we divided all males into a number that should be divided by three and people should know that we may help if we double up. This could give more words with small letters onto the side, whilest waiting for term time enabling to many of three!
Feel free to diss-agree!

I know I do!

It's very difficult for an old plodder like me to understand how some of the poets on WOL can be so productive (albeit in varying degrees of quality). Surely, they would be better served to post all their output to their own blogs, reserving what they think of as their best effort this month onto WOL for feedback and approval.
Quite frankly I sometimes think some of the work comes off the back of a fag packet with little or no content, whatever the words used.