Hmph - can't imagine it ever coming to Wigan.

Sorry I can't see it, this is a manic time of year for me with a million and one kids performances to go and see. What a shame they are showing it at such a busy time of year. Try getting them to show it again when it's quieter.

Congratualations on it anyway Julian - what an eduring piece of art - and someone really famous in it!

Comment is about Poem that inspired a film about dreams, family and loss (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

and in the glow of shells and mortars transience lights up another cig. Love this poem. Take care, Tony.

Comment is about Bible Pages (5/8/11) (blog)

Thank you very much Anthony for your welcome and careful reading. In fact "clunched" is a typo, as you wrote in your comment I ment "clenched". Sorry! I've just corrected it.
Regards

Comment is about Every new dawn (blog)

Original item by Carla Tombacco

Beautiful.Take care, Tony.

Comment is about Waiting at the Door (blog)

Original item by Alison Mary Dunn

This brings to mind a DJ. Take care, Tony.

Comment is about HYPNOSIS (blog)

Original item by Noetic-fret!

Yay! Go Julian.

Comment is about Poem that inspired a film about dreams, family and loss (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

Sorry about the original location error, Julian; I just knew it was somewhere up north! Despite the confusion I introduced, I see the screening of the north-west films is now sold out. Greg

Comment is about Poem that inspired a film about dreams, family and loss (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

Beautiful Thom just beautiful.I'd agree with Anthony that this could well reflect the creative urge - but also the mutual understanding you sometimes get when you find someone on the same wave length. That not having to explain.

For some reason I thought of the nature of the Holy Grail when I read this - and that perhaps many of us were still waiting to find that level of unconscious understanding. I think it was the supplication at the end that made me think along those lines.

Comment is about Great Warmth of a Curious Heart (blog)

Original item by Tom

Desire's fury to open violent playpen of lust
salivating our self absorbed paradise - - -

You build this poem up to such a sexual frenzy

Comment is about Banished to Eden (blog)

Original item by Katy Megan

If All Fails

Strictly come poetry
Marks out of
Well come on
This number needed
Nine plus one
Next new visitor
Add a spoonfull
Something very sweet
While slightly dozing
Tie them up
Politely ask if
They would like
To be released
Pen and paper
Sign membership form
Join the cause
Forget the terms
In small print
They are legal
Now at last
We have got
Write Out Loud
Up to ten.

Comment is about Stockport WoL (group profile)

Original item by Stockport WoL

Dunno Freda as it's not in my gift to decide such things. But I shall pass the idea on.

Comment is about Poem that inspired a film about dreams, family and loss (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

It's in Manchester, not Bolton!!

Comment is about Poem that inspired a film about dreams, family and loss (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

Mikhail read this -- he logged in , he is interested in such things, but rarely speaks about it. After a while he grew bored with the idea. Mikhail decided to log out and go for a walk in the chilly winter air.

Comment is about I, myself Tommy that's me (blog)

Original item by Tommy Carroll

Welcome to WOL Carla. I enjoyed reading this; full of nuggets of phrase and idea with a sensual feel in the descriptions. I particularly liked:


"a glass of sea in a knot
of salt"

One word I did struggle with was "clunched" - I couldn't find any reference in the dictionaries and wondered whether it was an invented variation of "clenched" - or, maybe even a typo! Nevertheless I did enjoy the read.

Regards,
A.E.

Comment is about Every new dawn (blog)

Original item by Carla Tombacco

I love reading your "top-shelf" stuff Katy! It always makes me feel like I did as a kid, when finding one of those "adult" magazines I shouldn't see - and devouring it line by line and picture by picture somewhere private! I guess we becpome a little more blase about that sudden rush of forbidden excitement as we get older - but not really wiser. You use two words here which I love, and which ought to be compulsory behaviour for everyone every now and again - "hedonism" and "debauchery." Should we start a campaign or petition perhaps? :)

Regards,
A.E.

Comment is about Banished to Eden (blog)

Original item by Katy Megan

One guesses one does as one sees Mr Carroll. As for Anthony Emmerson, I couldn't possibly speculate Sir!

A wry yet pertinent observation Tommy; one that perplexes me too.

Regards,
A.E.

Comment is about I, myself Tommy that's me (blog)

Original item by Tommy Carroll

I love the sentiment behind this Thom. A curious heart is a beautifully romantic way of describing the creative urge. These particular lines struck me as being deeply moving:

"there are sentences, still unspoken
always waiting to be written
frozen in time
waiting for the great warmth of a curious heart"

I feel that's a very fitting metaphor for a poet too - a warm and curious heart. Lovely.

Regards,
A.E.

Comment is about Great Warmth of a Curious Heart (blog)

Original item by Tom

Love this! Take care, Tony.

Comment is about Great Warmth of a Curious Heart (blog)

Original item by Tom

We need more elephants on the streets! Take care, Tony.

Comment is about A fine death (blog)

Original item by hugh

We have got a small grant for a one-off project from NALD, to pilot our crowd-translation-of-poetry-wiki idea.
There is some money in there for me to be paid a little for organising and such, which will keep me solvent for a few more months, thus the website too.
Do we have any Urdu speaker/poets out there?

Comment is about Please give a little to Write Out Loud - if you can spare it! (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

Thank you for the donations. It all helps. The Guardian ads bring in just less than half the money needed for the ISP charges, plus a wishing-to-remain anonymous donor makes a regular payment towards that element, which still leaves my credit card funding the rest. And I'm running out of dosh.

NO it won't Freda. We have considered it so often but it is cumbersome to set up and maintain, and is only worth doing if we think we can actually attract appropriate funding. Friends who've done it advise against (Brendan at Wicked Words, Sarah at Dead Good Poets) until we know we'll get enough money to justify the hassle. Some changed back after a couple of years of being a charity. I have spent a lot of time talking to advisers about this recently and I am meeting Arts Council for one-to-one advice next week. But that is only for the funding up to 9k for one-off projects, not core funding.
I will continue to do all I can to keep this running. We could have more Guardian ads on the site, but I fear it will look cheap, nasty, unpoetic.
If I become bankrupt on the strength of my commitment to Write Out Loud, I expect nothing less than a mass poetic sulk. We shall not go gentle into that virtual goodnight.

Comment is about Please give a little to Write Out Loud - if you can spare it! (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

Gorgeous.

Comment is about Great Warmth of a Curious Heart (blog)

Original item by Tom

Thanks. The 2nd verse refers to England's World Cup quarter final against Argentina in 1966 when Rattin, the Argentinian captain, was sent off and refused to leave the pitch for what seemed a very long time. After the match Alf Ramsey referred to the Argentinians as no better than animals. As you can tell, I've watched more football than is good for me.

Comment is about Alf Ramsey - My Part In His Success (blog)

Original item by Ray Miller

Bravo Julian! I would love to see this.

Comment is about Poem that inspired a film about dreams, family and loss (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

Sounds like a good idea to me, however, if poetry is to ever fully meet its public it requires imagination, heavy promotion and prime-time exposure. No doubt the talented and seemingly committed Ms Shaw will do STC justice, but I would suggest that The Old Vic Tunnels could hardly be considered a mainstream venue.

Comment is about New course for Coleridge's Mariner as Fiona Shaw sets sail (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

So that's where he got the concept of no wingers.

Comment is about Alf Ramsey - My Part In His Success (blog)

Original item by Ray Miller

Nice imagination Sid. Got the picture straight away bringing back my own memories of happy days growing up and playing football at every opportunity till it went dark.

Mike

Comment is about Alf Ramsey - My Part In His Success (blog)

Original item by Ray Miller

Derrrr - just got it - it was the imaginary Alf Ramsey :) This is a charming piece. I can so picture it.

Comment is about Alf Ramsey - My Part In His Success (blog)

Original item by Ray Miller

I enjoyed this bit of nostalgia but wasn't entirely sure who the chief scout was - an elder sibling or your inner self?

Our garden was half an acre of jungle. You could never have kicked a football in it but you could bend the weeds over and tie them to make tunnels big enough to walk through :) It was a great garden to grow up in - you could let your imagination grow wild - and we didn't go home till we were hungry or it was so dark you couldn't see...

Comment is about Alf Ramsey - My Part In His Success (blog)

Original item by Ray Miller

Fiona Shaw has a passion and commitment to poetry I've not witnessed in anyone else. If she's on board, it will work.

Comment is about New course for Coleridge's Mariner as Fiona Shaw sets sail (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

Dave - thanks very much for your comment. I fervently want to believe you but I'm not sure that people get 'noticed' in open mic sessions. It's not like Don Paterson is going round looking for clients for Faber. A lot of publication is by invitation only.

Comment is about Want to be published? Four painful facts and a morality tale (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

Cathy. Thank you for the Duotrope reminder. You're right. Peter - sorry. I don't use spellcheckers generally but just thought there should be a hyphen. Mea culpa.

Comment is about Want to be published? Four painful facts and a morality tale (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

Anthony - 100% agree with everything. Love the 'tablets of stone' and 'Icarus' scenarios. What great metaphors for the process of trying to become a writer. No doubt you are right, too, about the non-paper generation. Does that mean we are headed the same way as the libraries of Alexandria? How depressing.

Comment is about Want to be published? Four painful facts and a morality tale (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

Sorry I've been off-line everyone. Catching up with the comments. Isobel - I agree. Freda - thanks for this. I suppose I wasn't meaning self-publishing but it is an avenue that many poets are going down. I think as Isobel says beware of being asked for money for things which are researchable on the internet or in a library for free.

Comment is about Want to be published? Four painful facts and a morality tale (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

It sounds interesting but I haven't a clue who or what it's about.I thought a couple of the line breaks were odd

Does he think it’s just to
He’s continuing the

Comment is about HYPNOSIS (blog)

Original item by Noetic-fret!

£45? Oh what a snip ;) Maybe I'm the world's worst cynic - but might that not just be another money making spin off?

Why not research it on line then go buy yourself a cheese sandwich?

Bah humbug!

Comment is about Want to be published? Four painful facts and a morality tale (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

and now the shadow

of death resembles sunlight.



What animals think is of some concern.

Can deer feel guilty?



The deer looks guilty

and the lion leaps forward

I thought those were the best lines. What Animals Think would be a good title.

Deer resumes feeding,I,er, presume.

Treasured jewellery feet is a bit tautologous.

Have to say I don't see the significance of the final 2 lines.

Comment is about A Close Call Scenario (blog)

Original item by Kealan Coady

I see from MsLexia that there is a conference on self-publishing on Sunday March 24th 2013 9am - 5pm at the Gilbert Murray Conference Suite Uni of Leicester.
What is more it costs only £45 to register and that includes lunch. Sounds like a good event. www.selfpublishingconference.org.uk

Comment is about Want to be published? Four painful facts and a morality tale (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

I think you’ve planted a minefield here Frances. Is publication everything? I guess it’s a good feeling and an ego boost to be able to say “I’m published”, but, given that most of us accept that there’s really nothing in it as regards economic return, and that most readers of poetry are other poets, with their own egocentric viewpoints, what, exactly, is the real benefit? It may look good on a CV, but if that CV is taking you nowhere anyway then it seems to be all about self-gratification.
Frankly I feel being “published” is perhaps a diversion; surely, published or not, it is better to be “heard” or “read?” By that I mean read by a wide audience, such as that provided by sites like WOL; (OK, I know that’s mostly other poets too!) but it’s a very diverse audience, not limited to one particular style, genre or form.
Since most poets seem to self-publish, the epithet “vanity publishing” seems to be well chosen. This “mirror, mirror on the wall” syndrome means anyone, regardless of quality, ability or popular demand or appeal can get anything into print. What does this do for the overall image and reputation of poetry? I might be tempted to suggest that this phenomenon has a cumulatively negative effect on the public’s perception (I’m digging my trench as we speak!) This might go some way to explaining your “Painful Fact # 2.“

Of course any praise or recognition from your peer group is (or should be) worthwhile. Isobel makes some good points re the performance scene and its non-monetary rewards, but a career as a poet can only ever be (for the vast majority at least) an (opium filled) pipedream. Those that make any money from poetry are doing so not by writing it, but by writing about it, teaching it (if one can teach poetry?) talking about it or exploiting other various sideshoots off the main trunk.

So what are the real lessons here?

Apart from other poets very few people buy books of poetry.
There is a very limited chance of ever getting published in the mainstream.
Lots of people fancy their selves as poets.
Competitions seem to be cliquey, especially when judged by – poets.
There’s no money in it.

Having said all this, even restricting the market to other poets, judging by WOL’s fairly healthy membership, there is an outlet for decent and varied poetry. Could that market be expanded? Well, I guess that also depends on what the product is – and how it’s presented. To a large extent we are still talking in terms of the good old “words on paper” format here. Maybe this isn’t the most up-to-date or accessible way of presenting poetry. We now have a public equipped with smartphones, e-readers and tablets who probably don’t consider buying, let alone carrying round a book or pamphlet of any kind, let alone poetry; yet we are still attempting to sell to them in the equivalent of tablets of stone!

I think the grass-roots performance poetry scene is important for its social and networking benefits as well as being a potential launchpad for new talent – but, if there is no real destination after that launchpad it’s simply the Icarus crash and burn scenario.

The poetry “establishment” is such a fragmented beast (witness the following article)

http://www2.eng.cam.ac.uk/~tpl/texts/cultureofpoetry.html

that, in terms of leadership and vision it is directionless and engaged in the insular pursuit of navel-gazing – and that only when it can be roused from its Mogadon and Claret induced torpor.

I guess it all depends on where “we” want poetry to go and what “we” are prepared to do to get it there. Several well-aimed kicks up the poetry establishment’s flabby and corpulent derriere wouldn’t be a bad start; followed by a swift frogmarch into the twenty-first century - unless we are all content with it continuing its well-established practice of banging its bruised and bloodied (yet unbowed) brow against a wall of 5000g/sm papyrus.

Contrast/compare the two following statements:

Poetry is not widely popular because it is largely unread.

Poetry is largely unread because it is not widely popular.

Are both of these statements accurate? Maybe not; but if they are, is there the slim chance that the status quo could be changed, or at least challenged? If so, how do we go about challenging that? If we compare poetry with the music scene how many people still buy (despite the “vinyl revival”) their music on records or cassettes? Even the CD is now being consigned to the skip of history in favour of YouTube videos, Spotify and the MP3.
Would poetry benefit from a similar professional and more commercial presentation? Could we ever see a poetry video/audio/ mass-market “top 10”? Who knows – but surely it’s worth a shot?

I will now don a bomb-disposal suit and retreat to my lead-lined nuclear bunker . . .

Comment is about Want to be published? Four painful facts and a morality tale (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

Frances, I disagree with most of this, except for the fourth point, and the first if it's qualified. The publication of individual poems isn't that hard if you persevere with submitting and resubmitting (why don't you mention Duotrope?); many of my friends have got collections published by publishers who see them performing at many events and know that they will take the time and make the effort to sell their books (same for me too - and my book made a profit); you don't get a lot of money but you will get some if you submit to paying markets (again, thank you Duotrope) enough, and enter the free poetry competitions enough. See my comps and calls on the WOL Community Page here: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Write-Out-Loud-Community/260122457345775?ref=ts&fref=ts .. Submit everything you have to somewhere appropriate, re-submit it somewhere else when it comes back and (if proofed properly) the chances are that you will be published and paid for it. Too many fine writers believe this negative list of 'facts' - that's why they don't submit enough, and therefore don't get published and paid. None of which has anything to do with art, but is relevant to the desires to publish and be paid.

Comment is about Want to be published? Four painful facts and a morality tale (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

"Keatsian" is a very well established adjective, formed the same way as many other standard ways of forming adjectives with endings like -ish and -ic and -esque, but everywhere these days hyphens are coming in. Why? Is it spellchecking software objecting? Please just override and it and use the creative resources of English to form adjectives!

Comment is about Want to be published? Four painful facts and a morality tale (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

I'd disagree with you there Dave - or just alter slightly what you are saying.

The implication is that by not doing everything possible to get your poetry published, you are admitting that you don't believe in yourself as a true poet or capable artist. That's not so for me and for many who choose not to go down the 'scrabbling to get published' route. I'm quite confident that some of my poetry could get into certain magazines and anthologies, if I chose to submit it. I choose not to because I don't think there is a serious market for those publications - or at least it's a false market, created by the joint contributors. I just can't be arsed with that. Unless someone's beating at my door begging for my life and works, then I'm not interested.

I AM happy to be part of the live poetry scene though. Poets are a great quirky bunch of characters and I enjoy their company - also their performance, particularly when it is funny or passionate. Non poets don't buy many poetry books because they can't connect with a lot of the poetry. They can enjoy live performance poetry though - if they get to hear the right kind.

Comment is about Want to be published? Four painful facts and a morality tale (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

Two views -

One - that the ideal is that others notice poetry worthy of publication, or a poet with potential and provide the necessary help and encouragement? Poets like Gerard Manley Hopkins, Edward Thomas and Cavafy come to mind. There must be many others who either depended on the encouragement of others or who were published because of the efforts of others.

If one feels impelled to write, one does. One then typically shares it informally - WOL, an open mic, whatever, wherever. It's fun and interesting. If one is writing stuff of enduring value which really ought to be published, then other people will notice, encourage and enable. If one is having to push very hard for publication then the poems may not be of enduring value

Two - If one believes in what one is writing, then one will do everything in one's power to get it into print. Bombard editors and publishers, network, pull strings, enter every possible competition etc. If one doesn't have that sort of belief in one's poetry, why bother?

While respecting the determination of those with the second view, I could never inhabit that frame of reference. The first is more attractive, albeit possibly often unrealistic.

Comment is about Want to be published? Four painful facts and a morality tale (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

This is how it is.
I do lots of stuff for friends/relatives birthdays/ weddings/ funerals/ bar mitzvahs etc. People say to me "That's really good. You should get your stuff published".
I say to them, "When did you last buy a book of poetry?"
They get the idea.

Comment is about Want to be published? Four painful facts and a morality tale (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

thanx for comments on last two poems mate, both are quite personal but hope they are good for the soul, thanx pal

Comment is about Andy N (poet profile)

Original item by Andy N

You are my dear friends, I so much appreciate your comments.

Comment is about How Many Questions Our Life Arise? (blog)

Original item by Larisa Rzhepishevska

Hi Larisa. What can I say? ........Love this a lot! Spot on! Take care,Tony.

Comment is about How Many Questions Our Life Arise? (blog)

Original item by Larisa Rzhepishevska

Gift aid is for charities I think. Would it apply to you Julian?

Comment is about Please give a little to Write Out Loud - if you can spare it! (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

Any chance it will come to Hebden Bridge or Elland little cinemas?

Comment is about Poem that inspired a film about dreams, family and loss (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman

Being published in a magazine or a book with an ISBN number means you end up in the British Library so you are there for posterity I suppose. If the magazine or collection doesn't run to an ISBN number you might as well have printed it yourself. There is no one arbiter of taste in poetry. F.R.Leavis set himself up to say who were the famous poets of the first half of the 20th Century, and I believe he produced a poetry magazine. If you do set up a magazine you do get swamped by offerings and become blase after a short time, I think. My only experience of this was editing the university poetry mag. My experience of open mic has been much healthier. I do think reading work aloud allows people to get a feel for writing and I do think people improve in what they produce. I am sure my poems have been heard by far more people through poetry events. Thats what I write them for.

Comment is about Want to be published? Four painful facts and a morality tale (article)

Original item by Greg Freeman